PPA about to have 500,000 members

[1p0kerboy]

According to their website, they currently have 499,798 members. I think their goal was 1,000,000, so it would appear they are halfway home.

I recently changed my Stars avatar to the PPA logo in an effort to help the cause.

[MiltonFriedman]

Why you little activist, you !

[snowbank]

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Why you little activist, you !

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[Uglyowl]

Very cool..every bit helps. Glad they have the current totals online, it will be neat to see their growth.

[TheEngineer]

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Very cool..every bit helps. Glad they have the current totals online, it will be neat to see their growth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely.

Speaking of PPA, I wonder how much more they have to do to get the owners of this site to retract its officially issued negative opinion?

[TreyWilly]

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Very cool..every bit helps. Glad they have the current totals online, it will be neat to see their growth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely.

Speaking of PPA, I wonder how much more they have to do to get the owners of this site to retract its officially issued negative opinion?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been wondering why they've been so quiet, but my flame suit is too tight these days.

[jschaud]

just to put this in a frame of reference for some of us political newbies how many members will it take to really start applying some pressure.

I found the NRA has about 4 million members. I can't think of any other good activist type groups.

[TheEngineer]

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just to put this in a frame of reference for some of us political newbies how many members will it take to really start applying some pressure.

I found the NRA has about 4 million members. I can't think of any other good activist type groups.

[/ QUOTE ]

NRA had only 3 million in 1994, when they made the big difference in that year's election. Seems we should at least be able to be heard with 500,000. Hopefully we'll get the word out to increase this.

My wife decided to join today. I imagine we all can find one person to join if we think about it.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
just to put this in a frame of reference for some of us political newbies how many members will it take to really start applying some pressure.

I found the NRA has about 4 million members. I can't think of any other good activist type groups.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here are some membership numbers of random advocacy groups as listed in Wikipedia (in no particular order):

ACLU: 475,666 members
NRA: 4,300,000 members
NAACP: 400,000 members
Sierra Club: 700,000 members
MoveOn.org: 3,300,000 members

[Mason Malmuth]

We have now moved to a neutral position.

MM

[NY60]

I for one am glad that this site was diligent in its investigation of the PPA, and I both applaud and appreciate the efforts (and resources) it expended in its effort to insure that the PPA is up front, first and foremost, with its members about its finances and expenditutres.

An open and transparent organization is absolutely essential for a not-for-profit corporation especially in its infancy.

[TheEngineer]

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We have now moved to a neutral position.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the reply.

I have a follow-on question. Why only neutral? Will you share with us your concerns? Thanks.

Sure, the PPA had some growing pains typical of any start up. The investigation was what it was, but this is here and now. It seems the PPA is now a 500,000 person organization with a nationally recognized chair (D'Amato) and is out actively working for our interests. Soon they'll be too big to merit a "neutral", I imagine. We'll have to be for or against.

If you cannot support PPA, is there an alternative you have in mind? 2+2 has never sent us email asking us to oppose HR 4411 or to support IGREA (or to at least oppose UIGEA), so the plan isn't for 2+2 to take the lead.

Thanks.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
I for one am glad that this site was diligent in its investigation of the PPA, and I both applaud and appreciate the efforts (and resources) it expended in its effort to insure that the PPA is up front, first and foremost, with its members about its finances and expenditutres.

An open and transparent organization is absolutely essential for a not-for-profit corporation especially in its infancy.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, the site should have done due dilligence. A full investigation may have been overkill, but that's the site's decision.

I'm asking about the here-and-now. It seems the PPA has grown into a strong organization that's actively working toward our goals. So, I'm hoping folks can express why there are continued reservations toward working with them.

[Sniper]

Eng,

1. Do you not consider the existence of a "poker Legislation" forum on 2+2, an action?

2. What benefit is gained by either 2+2 or PPA, by 2+2 explicitely supporting the PPA? ie Why does it matter?

[TheEngineer]

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1. Do you not consider the existence of a "poker Legislation" forum on 2+2, an action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. It's an action. A passive one, but an action nontheless. It allows folks like you and me to encourage folks to fight back.


[ QUOTE ]
2. What benefit is gained by either 2+2 or PPA, by 2+2 explicitely supporting the PPA? ie Why does it matter?

[/ QUOTE ]

It probably wouldn't matter if 2+2 hadn't come out against the PPA last year. However, as the site did come out against PPA, it seems pertinent to know where they stand now, as we have an advocacy effort underway. After all, PPA has 500,000 members, D'Amato is out lobbying, Frank is seeking supporters for IGREA, and Rep. Berkley is looking for some bipartisan support for her study bill. That's why I asked for clarification.

Some here won't work with the PPA because 2+2 said not to. The benefit to be gained, if 2+2 were to endorse the effort, is that these folks will feel more comfortable joining, adding to the membership rolls of the PPA. It would be as if a big gun owners' site refused to endorse the NRA....that would weaken the NRA, the gun owners' site, and the gun rights movement in general.

[TreyWilly]

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Some here won't work with the PPA because 2+2 said not to.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the long and short of it. For 2+2 to act now like their position, the one they so fervently argued at one point, "doesn't matter" is ridiculous.

If you support it, swallow your pride and support it. If you don't, don't.

But don't act like it's no big deal.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1. Do you not consider the existence of a "poker Legislation" forum on 2+2, an action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. It's an action. A passive one, but an action nontheless. It allows folks like you and me to encourage folks to fight back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on, this is the #1 place on the net for information and clear action plans! (Thanks for all your efforts btw Eng)


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2. What benefit is gained by either 2+2 or PPA, by 2+2 explicitely supporting the PPA? ie Why does it matter?

[/ QUOTE ]

It probably wouldn't matter if 2+2 hadn't come out against the PPA last year. However, as the site did come out against PPA, it seems pertinent to know where they stand now, as we have an advocacy effort underway. After all, PPA has 500,000 members, D'Amato is out lobbying, Frank is seeking supporters for IGREA, and Rep. Berkley is looking for some bipartisan support for her study bill. That's why I asked for clarification.

Some here won't work with the PPA because 2+2 said not to. The benefit to be gained, if 2+2 were to endorse the effort, is that these folks will feel more comfortable joining, adding to the membership rolls of the PPA. It would be as if a big gun owners' site refused to endorse the NRA....that would weaken the NRA, the gun owners' site, and the gun rights movement in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, where they stand now was stated by Mason in this thread... neutral.

Second, I don't believe 2+2 told anyone not to work with the PPA. Link? There has been extensive discussion of the PPA here, and what 2+2 members were looking for from the PPA. There has not been much participation from the PPA President here though.

Third, the vast majority of 2+2 members who responded to a previous poll, are PPA members, and some are state directors.

Given this, I'm not really sure that you answered my question, so I'll try a slightly different question (actually several questions)...

Were 2+2 to change its position at some time in the future, what do you believe 2+2 support should look like?
Specifically, what do you believe that 2+2 Publishing should do?
and how would that benefit 2+2, the PPA, and Poker Players in general?

[TheEngineer]

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Come on, this is the #1 place on the net for information and clear action plans! (Thanks for all your efforts btw Eng)

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I appreciate the compliment. I am grateful to the site for providing the platform and the audience. After all, I couldn't have gotten much done standing on my doorstep with a megaphone or by handing out fliers on street corners.

That being said, I was answering the question about what this site did to promote the fight back, and I feel they provided a site by which we could discuss how to fight back. Again, that's not a ding on them. I don't think it's Mason's responsibility to put together plans for us to fight back (some here do).

[ QUOTE ]
First, where they stand now was stated by Mason in this thread... neutral.


[/ QUOTE ]

True. I was replying to where the site was. Neutral is good enough....we can move forward without reservation.

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Second, I don't believe 2+2 told anyone not to work with the PPA. Link? There has been extensive discussion of the PPA here, and what 2+2 members were looking for from the PPA. There has not been much participation from the PPA President here though.

Third, the vast majority of 2+2 members who responded to a previous poll, are PPA members, and some are state directors.

[/ QUOTE ]

2+2 recommended against working with the PPA on that thread with the investigation result that was stickied on the top of the forum for a few months. We were not personally discouraged from working with them or for them, of course.

[ QUOTE ]
Were 2+2 to change its position at some time in the future, what do you believe 2+2 support should look like?
Specifically, what do you believe that 2+2 Publishing should do?
and how would that benefit 2+2, the PPA, and Poker Players in general?


[/ QUOTE ]

Neutral is fine. A negative rating is clearly bad, as it keeps some people from joining.

[1p0kerboy]

499,946

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Were 2+2 to change its position at some time in the future, what do you believe 2+2 support should look like?
Specifically, what do you believe that 2+2 Publishing should do?
and how would that benefit 2+2, the PPA, and Poker Players in general?


[/ QUOTE ]

Neutral is fine. A negative rating is clearly bad, as it keeps some people from joining.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eng, you didn't answer the questions again...

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Were 2+2 to change its position at some time in the future, what do you believe 2+2 support should look like?
Specifically, what do you believe that 2+2 Publishing should do?
and how would that benefit 2+2, the PPA, and Poker Players in general?


[/ QUOTE ]

Neutral is fine. A negative rating is clearly bad, as it keeps some people from joining.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eng, you didn't answer the questions again...

[/ QUOTE ]

I answered it to my satisfaction. It doesn't matter anyway. I'm out of here. Good luck.

[Uglyowl]

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499,946

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They list now 517,898. Could they have just gotten a new sign up list from a PPA Drive?

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
Were 2+2 to change its position at some time in the future, what do you believe 2+2 support should look like?
Specifically, what do you believe that 2+2 Publishing should do?
and how would that benefit 2+2, the PPA, and Poker Players in general?


[/ QUOTE ]

Neutral is fine. A negative rating is clearly bad, as it keeps some people from joining.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eng, you didn't answer the questions again...

[/ QUOTE ]

I answered it to my satisfaction. It doesn't matter anyway. I'm out of here. Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eng, you are overreacting to Mason's comment... why?

[TheEngineer]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
Were 2+2 to change its position at some time in the future, what do you believe 2+2 support should look like?
Specifically, what do you believe that 2+2 Publishing should do?
and how would that benefit 2+2, the PPA, and Poker Players in general?


[/ QUOTE ]

Neutral is fine. A negative rating is clearly bad, as it keeps some people from joining.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eng, you didn't answer the questions again...

[/ QUOTE ]

I answered it to my satisfaction. It doesn't matter anyway. I'm out of here. Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eng, you are overreacting to Mason's comment... why?

[/ QUOTE ]

He was out of line.

Anyway, PPA has lots of members with no direction. We have lots of direction and ideas, but lack the manpower of a 500,000 person group. It seems there's an opportunity there. 2+2 had taken a negative postion with regards to PPA (they said something to the effect of, "we can't recommend supporting them at this time") after that investigation. I was asking if we as a community could work through this so we could have access to these 500,000 people. It's as simple as that.