Offshore Accounts and Poker Sites

[Orlando Salazar]

Why aren't poker sites just having people setup legit offshore bank accounts, then do an instant transfer to the poker skin? Couldn't PokerStars say "setup a swiss bank account and make a transfer to it, then just deposit on Stars and get a great bonus" It legal for us to have offshore accounts right? US has no juristiction on them right? Why cant Stars direct people to UBS for an instant account setup? EFTs can take minutes right? Skall?

[questions]

In the past when I've raised the question as to the enforceability of any such provisions of the UIGEA, this has always been the first question in my mind. Thanks for raising it so clearly.

Half a year later, I still don't understand how any regulations would be able to prevent this from happening.

[Izzy Vega]

US banks may not allow deposits with offshore banks that knowing allow US citizens to make transactions with online gaming sites.

Then again it maybe to much of a stretch for US banks to identify such offshore bank accounts and stop such deposits.

Interested to see Skalls response.

[questions]

This must be one of the regulations which US banks are complaining about, because if privacy laws in Lilliput (for example) prohibit domestic banks from interfering with customers wishes as to how they transact personal business, and by extension, from divulging such information to foreign entities (such as US banks), then getting around Lilliput's laws would have all kinds of implications and problems. I just can't see that happening.

[Izzy Vega]

Now that I think about it I have heard of Poker Sites setting there "VIP" players up with offshore accounts.

I think it would be good for poker sites to start directing there players to offshore accounts. Offshore account might be the ultimate gambit!

[AP0CALYP5E]

I want to do it, but so far it seems like they all want a sizeable minimum balance.

[Izzy Vega]

You can find offshore accounts with no or a small minimum balance. Just gotta dig.

[Izzy Vega]

I havn't opened one, out of hope that it will not be necessary. Waiting to see the regulation release on July 10th.

Hoping for no black list (which skall has mentioned probably wouldnt to effective anyway). Also hoping for ach payment and paper check excemptioin, which would pretty much cripple the UIGEA.

Even if the regs are strong there will probably be several work arounds.

Offshore account is my worst comes to worst back up plan.

[Orlando Salazar]

My point is that sites should make it easy and cheap to do this. How difficult would that be? Side not maria menunos is HOT and so is kim kardashian.

[berya]

"My point is that sites should make it easy and cheap to do this. How difficult would that be?"

Good point. I would not go out on my own and try to open an offshore account. If however PokerStars was to lead the way I would gladly open one within a week and be done with this whole fiasco.

I'm sick and tired of jumping thru hoops and waiting for weeks to get my money from sites thru some 3rd party whatever, this and that, blah blah blah.

[BluffTHIS!]

Salazar,

Here's the answer:

1) 9/11/ Patriot Act;

2) US armtwisting of other holdout tax haven nations to fall in line with international banking regs to fight money laundering;

3) the resulting specific requirement that banks "know your customer"

[questions]

[ QUOTE ]
Salazar,

Here's the answer:

1) 9/11/ Patriot Act;

2) US armtwisting of other holdout tax haven nations to fall in line with international banking regs to fight money laundering;

3) the resulting specific requirement that banks "know your customer"

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it is naive to believe that matters are this simple.

[BluffTHIS!]

q,

It is indeed that simple as to why the sites can't easily set up accounts for players overseas. KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER.

google it and see.

[Izzy Vega]

I understand the "know your customer" policy. But Poker sites could easily point there players in the right direction and refer them to an offshore bank, and even offer a deposit bonus when depositing by this offshore bank. I dont think questions expects the poker site to set up the account for you. Think there some mis-communication here.

[BluffTHIS!]

Izzy,

The only place you can get accounts created without going there that I know of is the Caymans, and you still have to deposit 10K with most of them, though as littlle as 1K with some, and you have to send them a bank reference as well. Even for a lot of 2+2'ers, especially at the lower limits, this is just going to be both too much trouble and too expensive.

[questions]

[ QUOTE ]
KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay - but as it applies to foreign (non-US) banks, it seems that all it means is verify a potential customer's identity. How does such identity verification figure into your argument?

[Izzy Vega]

Bluff This-
Try using your google search engine. You can open plenty of offshore accounts right online. If you google further you can find offshore accounts with a small or no min. balance. Stop being a player hater.

[questions]

[ QUOTE ]
Izzy,

The only place you can get accounts created without going there that I know of is the Caymans, and you still have to deposit 10K with most of them, though as littlle as 1K with some, and you have to send them a bank reference as well. Even for a lot of 2+2'ers, especially at the lower limits, this is just going to be both too much trouble and too expensive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true.

[AP0CALYP5E]

I have seen 1k minimum, but I'm looking for lower,

[Izzy Vega]

I know some swedish banks offer no min bal. I do not have the information on hand. (its at my house and im at my gf's house). But when I get home ill reply with that info.

Or you can just google and search. It may take you a little time to find a offshore account with no min. balance but they are out there.

You fellas really think things are that bad where we need to start opening offshore accounts. I thought I would just wait to see how things will play out with the regs. I think there is a good chance an offshore account will not be nessary. What do you guys think?

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Izzy,

The only place you can get accounts created without going there that I know of is the Caymans, and you still have to deposit 10K with most of them, though as littlle as 1K with some, and you have to send them a bank reference as well. Even for a lot of 2+2'ers, especially at the lower limits, this is just going to be both too much trouble and too expensive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true.

[/ QUOTE ]


Note that I said "that I know of". Please elaborate if you know of others instead of making only an allusion to same. I personally am not interested, but apparently other posters are.

[TheMetetron]

I've got a Swiss bank account I opened as soon as the UIGEA passed. It has proven to be a wise move.

That said, most of you guys won't have it as a feasible option. One, my bank has stopped accepting professional gamblers. Two, they require me to put a sizable amount of money into investments through them.

[Izzy Vega]

http://www.ptshamrock.com/number_acc.html
www.swiss-bank-accounts.com (http://www.swiss-bank-accounts.com)
www.escapeartist.com (http://www.escapeartist.com) -find good offshore mail drops here.

When I get some more time i'll search for more. There are many.

Anyone else feel free to share your findings.

[AP0CALYP5E]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.ptshamrock.com/number_acc.html
www.swiss-bank-accounts.com (http://www.swiss-bank-accounts.com)
www.escapeartist.com (http://www.escapeartist.com) -find good offshore mail drops here.

When I get some more time i'll search for more. There are many.

Anyone else feel free to share your findings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those are just companies that set up accounts and charge a few for doing it. No one is going to pay $700 just to set up an account.

[Izzy Vega]

From my brief research the last couple of days I think an offshore bank account would be ALMOST worthless.

1. Skall commented he did not see the point of a offshore a bank account unless you were trying to play at a poker site that does not allow US residents.

One poster responded he wanted one just to make his withdraw easier.

My response is if your playing at a sucessful poker site that allow US residents they will have an acceptable means to withdraw.

2. Now say you want to open a offshore account to play at Party. Man you have a whole lot of hurddles in you way. Here is a few scenarios.

a. You open a offshore account using your US address. If you withdraw from Party to your bank, chance are they will have you bank information (home address) revealing you are a US resident and they close your account and take your funds.

b. You try to open an offshore account using a offshore mail drop address. Usually the offshore bank will want a passport or form of ID, which would immediatley blow your cover.

c. There is some offshore banks that do not require identity verification (i would be real careful using such a bank). Say you have sucessfuly opened a offshore account with a offshore mail drop address. Now more and more poker sites are requesting a form of ID before the will process your withdraw. Now unless you have a ID issued from the country your mail drop is in you are screwed.

d. Say you have used a offshore address to set up an account and you have sucessfuly withdraw funds from your poker site to your offshore bank account. Now you will need to get the money home. You then wire the money back to your personal account. The bank will more than likely catch on. You have a bank account set up with them with a non-us address then you are depositing funds to yourself, to an account set up in the US with a US address. Big red flag im sure.

The only way an offshore account would succeed is if you set one up using your US address then using a ewallet and hope Party Poker never ask to see an ID or bank details. Which is possible. Or you successfully open an offshore bank account using a offshore mail drop and again just hope they dont ask for a ID. A lot of effort and a lot risk.

Oh yeah would any of this be considered money laundering or raketeering? If so, how?

I'm still looking into getting an offshore account, but it seems to be a lot more work and risk than I intially thought. And why go through all that trouble when I can still 8 table Poker Stars?

[allbad]

damn terrorists and drug lords... they ruined it for all of us.

[questions]

Someone asked if now was a good time to look at opening such an account. My feeling is that the regulations are only going to expand government control over you and your money. So if you want to hedge your bets, I'd say make sure you are protecting yourself. Obviously, you have to obey the law, but as far as I know, there is nothing illegal about opening a bank account overseas. I've had one for many years.

[Doctor Who]

I don't want to offer suggestions in open forum, but an offshore acct for a modest player is doable and wise. AND, the way you get the money out is fairly simple and non-traceable. Will try to be more accomodating in PM with SERIOUS players.

[thelogan]

Certainly possible to open a credible offshore account and acquire a credit card through that account. From what I know, it is expensive and one really needs to deposit a decent amount to make it worthwhile.

There are more "low end" options but I would be somewhat concerned about their safety, hence if you go ahead then do this properly and deposit a significant chunk of funds so you are taken seriously.

[r1base14]

[ QUOTE ]
Salazar,

Here's the answer:

1) 9/11/ Patriot Act;

This is really inapplicable here.

2) US armtwisting of other holdout tax haven nations to fall in line with international banking regs to fight money laundering;

Money laundering involves the processing of fudns obtained illegally through legitimate investments to "clean" the funds and make them appear legitimate. UIGEA did not make online poker illegal, hence U.S. citizens would not be luandering money by moving the funds through offshore accounts.

3) the resulting specific requirement that banks "know your customer"

This does not rpesent a problem if a U.S. citizen has valid ID. What's the problem here?


[/ QUOTE ]

[questions]

[ QUOTE ]
This does not rpesent a problem if a U.S. citizen has valid ID. What's the problem here?

[/ QUOTE ]

First, I am not a lawyer, or any other financial expert, just an amateur someone who is interested in recreational poker play.

I think the idea behind concerns about "know your customer" bank legislation stem from the fact that the traditional "numbered" anonymous bank accounts are now, post-9/11, subject to more scrutiny. That is, it is less possible today to have accounts with the same degree of anonymity.

However, my understanding is that "know your customer" does not prohibit banks from setting up accounts for Americans or non-citizens. Additionally, banking privacy laws in some jurisdictions are extremely strict, so left unexplained is precisely how "googling 'know your customer'" will reveal any caveats about opening such accounts.