25NL: JJ flops second pair + open ender on reraised pot

[jimpo]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($4)
Hero ($29.65)
UTG ($6.40)
MP ($20.10)
CO ($10.55)
Button ($45.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $0.75</font>, CO calls $0.75, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $3</font>, MP calls $2.25, CO calls $2.25.

Flop: ($9.10) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $7.55 (All-In)</font>, Hero...?

MP = 31/9/0.5 over 35 hands
CO = 54/12/0.5 over 70 hands

both are not very good players

I checked because I thought I am not going to make better hands fold and I wanted to give shortstack opportunity to commit suicide with a worse hand or push a flush draw (any sense in that?). I was not sure whether I want to keep MP in the pot or make him fold? If CO has a Q then I would like to keep MP in pot, if I am leading I would like to make him fold.

[C4LL4W4Y]

Checking this flop against these guys is pretty gross, I have to admit.

[Sweir]

Well if you think that CO will push worse or bluff here then c/c is fine. Obv you have to call this now that you checked....folding here would be bad, imo.

[ssdex]

I really really really think you should have lead here, now your in a really awkward spot, what if you call and then mp calls? do you shove now, you obv don't want mp sticking around either..... i just think leading here makes your play later a hell of a lot easier

[BozMan82]

How big of a bet would be a good lead out bet? 2/3 pot?

[jimpo]

[ QUOTE ]
Well if you think that CO will push worse or bluff here then c/c is fine. Obv you have to call this now that you checked....folding here would be bad, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously I am not folding here, question is do I want MP in the pot (call) or out of the pot (push)?

[jimpo]

[ QUOTE ]
I really really really think you should have lead here, now your in a really awkward spot, what if you call and then mp calls? do you shove now, you obv don't want mp sticking around either..... i just think leading here makes your play later a hell of a lot easier

[/ QUOTE ]

A detail about leading - if you lead the flop for say $7, you are effectively pot committed in case either of them raises. So should you just straight push to maximize you FE? Or do you have any FE at all in case you are behind?

[ssdex]

shoving here is bad I think, I think leading and calling shove is better, it induces more bluffs and I really think that if you make a big lead here there are some hands that will shove that you are ahead of that fold if you shove.

[jimpo]

[ QUOTE ]
shoving here is bad I think, I think leading and calling shove is better, it induces more bluffs and I really think that if you make a big lead here there are some hands that will shove that you are ahead of that fold if you shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess that's better, also I guess no-one who called $3 with a queen is going to fold to my push.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($4)
Hero ($29.65)
UTG ($6.40)
MP ($20.10)
CO ($10.55)
Button ($45.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $0.75</font>, CO calls $0.75, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $3</font>, MP calls $2.25, CO calls $2.25.

Flop: ($9.10) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $7.55 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $17</font>, MP folds.

Turn: ($33.65) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($33.65) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $33.65

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Js Jd (one pair, jacks).
CO has 8d Qh (one pair, queens).
Outcome: CO wins $24.20. Hero wins $9.45. </font>

After my raise MP tanked and afterwards went on and on about how "he folded A9!!!111"

equities with me + CO:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.919% 31.21% 00.71% 309 7.00 { JdJs }
Hand 1: 68.081% 67.37% 00.71% 667 7.00 { Qh8d }

equities with all 3:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.429% 30.21% 00.22% 3274 23.33 { JdJs }
Hand 1: 50.215% 50.00% 00.22% 5418 23.33 { Qh8d }
Hand 2: 19.355% 19.14% 00.22% 2074 23.33 { A9s, A9o }

So in this specific case I would have liked MP to call. I have no idea of how to deduce what I would like to happen in a general case, and whether raising or calling is better.