NL50 JJ on interesting board

[bigoliver]

Ok this bet on that flop looks eighter as "I have nothing" or "I have a queen". Since i am oop i didn't want to find out. Any other ideas?

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $37.43
BB: $44.35
<font color="black">Hero (UTG): $69.90</font>
MP: $50.00
CO: $25.92
BTN: $64.80

<font color="black">Reads: </font><font color="blue">41 / 9 / 1.4 79 hands

Flop AF is 3.0</font>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, MP folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $3.00</font>, BTN calls $3.00, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.25

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($9.75) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $3.50</font>, 2 folds

Pot Size: $13.25

[CobraGoat]

I dont mind an OOP float here to see what villain does on the turn. obvs, OOP floats are not ideal but...

[MJBuddy]

Any reads on him thus far? Other than HUD reads that is? Have you seen him play paired rainbow flops yet?

[bigoliver]

[ QUOTE ]
Any reads on him thus far? Other than HUD reads that is? Have you seen him play paired rainbow flops yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

No I hadn't noticed him at all.

[monkeymaps]

meh this would be a good spot to c/r bluff agianst a more TAG player but this guy seems like a station think c/c re eval on the turn line is ok here.

[MJBuddy]

I really want to reraise here and nail him on the CBet with a good bit of call equity. But with the small amount of hands seen(oh god relying on HUD for reads), the small reraise that wants you to call and the selective hand raising %, I'm thinking you might be beat...but I think floating this might not be too horrible.

What's your Pre-FA? I'll post again after that :P

[bigoliver]

[ QUOTE ]

What's your Pre-FA? I'll post again after that :P

[/ QUOTE ]

PFAF??? 5.21

[MJBuddy]

I think you're stuck to floating. He's not going to believe much of what you do, and you need him to believe you here.

[chaide]

i think is a fold KK,AA AQ beats you that are the more likely hands that can reraise you being you a raiser from early position and being the guy a passive player.

[jdefoe]

I think AA/KK bets more here to protect their hand. when he bets 3.50 here it does not tell us much about your hand. So, I think he has AK or AQ here, but since he bet so small, I would call and reevaluate

[jdefoe]

does anyone like leading into the raiser here?

[Zanton]

With RI and Button after, I don't think you can bet into them.

CC flop and reevaluate turn imo.

Let's say you float here, what do you do on a blank turn, and a smallish bet as he did on flop ?

[monkeymaps]

[ QUOTE ]
does anyone like leading into the raiser here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is ok lead for like 2/3 pot if raised fold,,, actually that might be better than just c/c down which is prob what your stuck doing on most turns.

[balzak520]

[ QUOTE ]
does anyone like leading into the raiser here?

[/ QUOTE ]
With the reraiser behind you, and a cold-caller, I wouldn't lead into this pot. You're behind all of the made hands on broadway and any queen. Plus, position is just so crucial when making a bluff (which I believe this is what a bet here will be), and on board texture like this one, that acting out of position here is really spewing chips.

If you float here, are you ready to call another raise/bet on the turn? What's a good card for you on the turn? Any scare card, is a scare card for you, and you will probably check/muck. "Float and reevaluate," is a terrible line in my opinion. I have a problem with that line in general, because if you float it should be with a purpose of action later down the line, or else you're just a calling station.

At these stakes, his min-raise is donkish but I think indicative of a strong hand.

[balzak520]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
does anyone like leading into the raiser here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is ok lead for like 2/3 pot if raised fold,,, actually that might be better than just c/c down which is prob what your stuck doing on most turns.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you do if he calls? Or the button calls? You are completely forgetting that there are two to act behind you. If the turn is a blank, firing another barrel is pricey on the turn, and any scare card other than a Jack is just going to kill any chance of you continuing.

Just muck em out of position.

[monkeymaps]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
does anyone like leading into the raiser here?

[/ QUOTE ]
With the reraiser behind you, and a cold-caller, I wouldn't lead into this pot. You're behind all of the made hands on broadway and any queen. Plus, position is just so crucial when making a bluff (which I believe this is what a bet here will be), and on board texture like this one, that acting out of position here is really spewing chips.

If you float here, are you ready to call another raise/bet on the turn? What's a good card for you on the turn? Any scare card, is a scare card for you, and you will probably check/muck. "Float and reevaluate," is a terrible line in my opinion. I have a problem with that line in general, because if you float it should be with a purpose of action later down the line, or else you're just a calling station. At these stakes, a min-raise is donkish but I think indicative of a strong hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


I dont agree with never floating OOP I mean thats pretty explotiable dont you think? I mean only betting your strong hands and c/folding your weak ones when your OOP is a little too obvious even at 50NL

c/minraise here is terrible what does that do even if you have the best hand your giving great odds on a wet board

[monkeymaps]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
does anyone like leading into the raiser here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is ok lead for like 2/3 pot if raised fold,,, actually that might be better than just c/c down which is prob what your stuck doing on most turns.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you do if he calls? Or the button calls? You are completely forgetting that there are two to act behind you. If the turn is a blank, firing another barrel is pricey on the turn, and any scare card other than a Jack is just going to kill any chance of you continuing.

Just muck em out of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you say a minraise is good but leading here is bad? I think leading is better than c/c here you dont have to bet the turn if your called

[balzak520]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont agree with never floating OOP is never good I mean thats pretty explotiable dont you think? I mean only betting your strong hands and c/folding your weak ones when your OOP is a little too obvious even at 50NL

c/minraise here is terrible what does that do even if you have the best hand your giving great odds on a wet board

[/ QUOTE ]

At these stakes, I don't think it's that exploitable, however, I'm not disagreeing with you. I never said "never," I said, "floating" and "reevaluating" is just a weak excuse to call, I believe if you are going to "float" then you should have intentions of stealing or raising the pot on certain cards; which in this particular case, doesn't seem like it's going to happen unless you hit a case Jack.

Also, I never mentioned Check/minraise, I called the move donkish. I said his minraise is donkish, and probably indicative of a strong hand.

[balzak520]

Ahh, I see where you could have misread me, I meant his minraise. I didn't mean for the OP to minraise. lol, sorry

[renotime]

i would call and reevaluate on the turn

[SwingVelvet]

[ QUOTE ]
With RI and Button after, I don't think you can bet into them.

[/ QUOTE ]

quickly can someone tell me what RI stands for, thanks.

[balzak520]

I think he meant, Initial Raiser, IR.

[ssdex]

I really think a call and C/R any turn is a good line here.... villian probably has AK but if he has aces or kings that line may be able to push him off of those hands.

[Paul Thomson]

leading flop inorder to put pressure on the preflop raiser is fine.

check-calling flop and check-calling or check-folding the turn is also good.

[orig!naL]

I think there is a good chance this flop bet is a very weak bet. Put yourself in his head. You raised OOP, he re-raised, you called and now you have checked the flop. Given that line I think this may be a probe bet by villain. You have shown obvious strength pf and I don't see how villain wouldn't think he could get more value out of you if he had the nuts here. I agree that he could be slow playing his hand, but I think its worth raising him here. If he is holding AQ here he is betting more than $3.50 most of the time.

I'm raising this flop bet to around $9 and if he calls I'm shutting down (unless of course a J hits).

I don't think this is the ideal flop to be doing this on and I would only be doing this with a tight image. If my image was loose at all I'm folding to this bet - find a better spot