TP+flush draw in position

[corsakh]

25 UB,
villain seems like your average fish, pretty bad. Not many reads, third orbit I think.

Stacks about $30.

Hero with Kh Jh on the button.

UTG limps, 1 fold, Villain raises to $1.1, Hero calls, 2 fold, UTG calls.

I was expecting UTG to call and was playing for two pair / straight / flush value.

Pot $3.5 Flop Kd 6h 5h
UTG checks, Villain checks, Hero bets 3, UTG calls, Villain calls

Pot $12.5 Turn 10c
UTG checks, Villain checks, Hero ???

[corsakh]

I'd appreciate some thought on this hand please /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Dr_Mabuse101]

Preflop and flop is fine. I would bet 7-8 on turn.

[corsakh]

7-8 into two flop callers? Mm..

My dilemma here is either checking for pot control or folding out Ah. In the latter I need to bet close to $10 imho.

[jk1986]

I check through for pot control, I don't think an average fish folds a draw to a second barrel, and the river is gonna be pretty difficult to play if one of them puts in a big bet on a blank.

[MJBuddy]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think an average fish folds a draw to a second barrel.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly why I think we should bet the turn

I want them to call just within odds then wreck them when they think they made the longshot flush or simply hold up the strongest hand. They're calling with draws/TPWK 90% of the time here.

[jdefoe]

I was thinking a bet of $8 is in order. You want to protect yoru hand, but you dont want to build the pot so big that you are committed to calling a nice sized bet on the end. The problem is, by betting 8, if the first player calls, the other player will have the odds to call too.

Edit: i think if one of them had a stronger king such as KQ they would have bet the flop

[Paul Thomson]

[ QUOTE ]
7-8 into two flop callers? Mm..

My dilemma here is either checking for pot control or folding out Ah. In the latter I need to bet close to $10 imho.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is good thinking, but u also should take into account that u don't want to fold out worse flush draws but then u still need to protect against the nut flush.

[jk1986]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think an average fish folds a draw to a second barrel.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly why I think we should bet the turn

I want them to call just within odds then wreck them when they think they made the longshot flush or simply hold up the strongest hand. They're calling with draws/TPWK 90% of the time here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally so, but this is a 3-way pot, and TPGK loses value significantly, if you fire the turn you build a big pot. What then if they fire out on a river blank?

[MJBuddy]

Depends on the blank, I'd say. I don't want to let a straight draw catch up to me for free though, and I like making everyone in the hand "think" I'm no where near the flush. By betting strong, if they call and a diamond hits, they might induce a bluff or an actual flush will play it strong...and lose.

[youthies]

I check. I don't see a fish folding the nut flush here, and you only have TPGK + a FD- don't commit yourself.

[MJBuddy]

So what happens when a diamond is peeled off and he overbets the pot thinking you're bluffing the flop or just have a weak hand? Folding your second nuts?

If he's not going to lay down his nut flush draw on the turn, that's exactly why you bet into him. Give him the bad odds that pay you off. He probably won't fold a lot of flush draws because it's impossible to put the hero on one as well, so he'll probably value a lovely Q high flush just as much as an Ace.

[youthies]

Making him pay to draw is a reason to bet, but I don't think that one reason is enough.
If the river's a heart and he has a flush, you'll get his money on the river.
Also, there are 2 villains- there's a good chance your hand is already beat.

[Angrymoog]

Although there is merit to both betting and checking, I think you should check the turn. The T helps opponent range quite a bit. If either of them has a made hand, you're behind their range. Furthermore, its sick to have to lay your hand down to a large bet on an unimproved river.

I really think the situation is so marginal, I opt to control pot size than shoot for the thin value bet.

[corsakh]

Ye was going to check all along but then dicided to fire for $10. UTG tanks and folds. I am 99% positive he was on Ah. Villain shoves for another $12. I am like WTF.