50NL; TT getting played back at on 2JJ flop

[Lego05]

Villian is 31.11/20/2.38 over 45 hands.

Turn move and river plan if not a fold please.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($54.10)
CO ($50)
Button ($108.20)
SB ($80)
BB ($58.35)
UTG ($60.70)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, CO calls $2, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: ($4.75) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $9</font>, Hero calls $6.

Turn: ($22.75) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $15</font>, Hero ???

[WC101]

The call preflop tells me the CO most likely played AJ maybe QJ suited. Maybe even as loose as TJ suited. The only way to have really found that out was to either check raise after the flop (betting 3.00 doesnt get much info. It Looks like a continuation bet) or reraise him after the flop. You can usually get away a lot cheaper with the check raise. If you get played back at then I'd fold. Since he's either a loon or has the nuts. I'd say the odds are 8/2 nuts/bluff.. Move on

[wildzer0]

I think this is fine until the turn, I would just go ahead and fold there. You're going to face a decision on the river you're really unhappy with if you call this bet - just lousy reverse implied odds unless you have a good read that he'll make these kind of moves at paired boards.

[Lego05]

Bump.

[Paxosmotic]

[ QUOTE ]
Bump.

[/ QUOTE ]
Fold.

[rakes.a.beach]

[ QUOTE ]
The call preflop tells me the CO most likely played AJ maybe QJ suited. Maybe even as loose as TJ suited. The only way to have really found that out was to either check raise after the flop (betting 3.00 doesnt get much info. It Looks like a continuation bet) or reraise him after the flop. You can usually get away a lot cheaper with the check raise. If you get played back at then I'd fold. Since he's either a loon or has the nuts. I'd say the odds are 8/2 nuts/bluff.. Move on

[/ QUOTE ]

May call as loose as JT suited? who the hell doesn't call JT suited? I think check raise flop is horrible as is 3betting the flop.

OP, your line is fine. Just fold the turn.

[jdefoe]

I would bet $4-4.75 on the flop. If i haven't seen how the villan plays on paired boards before, i would simply fold without a good read

[Lego05]

Are we really putting him squarely on a J here? Most people won't play so aggressively if they have a J on this board, right? People will try to slowplay their trips.

[jdefoe]

does anyone think he could be making a "raise for information" with something like 88?

[Waingro]

[ QUOTE ]
Are we really putting him squarely on a J here? Most people won't play so aggressively if they have a J on this board, right? People will try to slowplay their trips.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah there are plenty of aggrodonks out there who will take this line with any two cards. However, this villain doesn´t seem to be loose enough pf or aggro enough to fit that description. Usually this kind of player take one shot at the pot and slows down on the turn if he is called.

[sww]

Looks like a bluff to me, or the nuts if he is good. If you don't want to fold, I think fold is best anyway, call the turn and check/fold the river. He shouldn't continue his bluff further if he is sane. He could have 22 too but I don't think that changes anything.

[Knight Vision]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like a bluff to me, or the nuts if he is good. If you don't want to fold, I think fold is best anyway, call the turn and check/fold the river. He shouldn't continue his bluff further if he is sane. He could have 22 too but I don't think that changes anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying this is wrong, but I am not calling off half my stack to c/f the river. I'm thinking if we are calling this turn we should be leading it. If our lead gets action, we are shutting it down.

[Vyse]

I think this is a thin value call situation.

[renotime]

i'd get rid of that crap on the turn

[ssdex]

does anyone think that calling the flop here oop is pretty bad? I would like to see a re raise or fold on the flop, it will save you $ later if you want to find out if he has a jack or not..... by calling and not leading turn, do you expect him to slowdown or something? I think if you think he is making a move that 4betting the flop here is a good as move as any, donkminraise to 18 /images/graemlins/smile.gif.....

[WC101]

Maybe I shouldnt have put it quite that way "loose as JT suited" but JTs calling a 4x raise on a .25/.50 table? Only thing going for it is position. Initial raiser could easily have AJ KJ or even QJ. Then whatya do with that flop, except lose all your money? If I'm putting in 2.00 at a 50.00 table it sure wont be to call with a weak hand. GL

[Abramovic]

I think folding to flop raise is weak, particularly with the way the games are playing these days.

jdefoe, why would you pot this flop? I think that's spewy.

Without decent history I think you have to fold turn.

[Knight Vision]

[ QUOTE ]
does anyone think that calling the flop here oop is pretty bad? I would like to see a re raise or fold on the flop, it will save you $ later if you want to find out if he has a jack or not..... by calling and not leading turn, do you expect him to slowdown or something? I think if you think he is making a move that 4betting the flop here is a good as move as any, donkminraise to 18 /images/graemlins/smile.gif.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I like a fold to the check-raise because no move other than that is a "good" move. The size of the pot and Hero's investment so far are not enough to really risk getting any deeper.

That said, if that line's too weak, a check/call on the turn doesn't do anybody any good. Call flop, lead turn is much better but, basically tells him you don't have a jack, so with position Villain owns this hand and can push over any turn and you have to fold any non-T.

So ssdex is right. If you are going to continue on, four-bet the flop and be done with it (don't min-bet though).

Ugh, all that now down on paper, I'm leaning even more toward ditching it. If you had position it would be much different, but there's no line that makes your $5 worth fighting for. If he pwns you with 33-99, good for him.