tough spots: easy folds or instacalls?

[JackSevenSuited]

are either of these foldable?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $49.50
<font color="black">Hero (BB): $56.25</font>
UTG: $39.90
MP: $49.25
CO: $48.60
BTN: $60.35

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt A/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, BTN folds, SB calls $0.25, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3.00</font>, UTG calls $2.50, MP calls $2.50, CO folds, SB calls $2.50

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($12.50) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $12.50</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">SB raises all-in to $46.50</font>


and


Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $42.00
BB: $45.25
UTG: $50.00
MP: $15.95
<font color="black">Hero (CO): $35.05</font>
BTN: $65.40

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 Players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $1.75</font>, MP calls $1.75, Hero calls $1.75, 3 folds

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($6) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $4.00</font>, MP folds, Hero calls $4.00

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($14) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $9.00</font>, Hero calls $9.00

<font color="black">River:</font> ($32) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $34.00[/color

[MJBuddy]

Hand 1: This is a set 60% of the time, a flush draw 10% of the time, and two pair 30% of the time, imo.

Hand 2: 3-bet flop. Push turn.

[Keys Myaths]

Hand 1 is a fold. I'm learning, although slowly, that minraises of c-bets mean, "I can beat ace-high!" Shoving against c-bets means, "I don't care what you have. I win."

Hand 2--please stop playing sets like a calling station. Honestly, the flop call is fine. It's a dry board, and we'll get more money this way. On the turn, though, we need to start assuming he has an ace. Push.

[ssdex]

hand 1: easy fold without lots of info on opponent.... for example, i know he open limps ak and kq--- he is shove happy
hand 2: c/r turn or bet it harder.....

[Vyse]

1. Difficult to fold it in the middle of the hand, but yeah, you're likely beat. Unless you've seen him shove marginal hands like this -- say, AK or KQ -- this would be a very bad call.

2. Plz raise turn. Please shove over him on river.

[Keys Myaths]

[ QUOTE ]

hand 2: c/r turn or bet it harder.....

[/ QUOTE ]

He can't c/r turn.

[Keys Myaths]

BTW--you did not raise NEARLY enough PF.

Remember, 4BB+1BB for every limper. 4 limpers=8BB=$4.00.

Plus, if you're in the blinds, I like to add an additional 2BB just because we're going to be so OOP for the rest of the hand. I make it 5 to go preflop.

[ssdex]

haha the red writing threw me off..... jesus, please raise turn.........

[Vyse]

Adding in a whopping 2 BB just because you're in the blinds = not very wise.

[Keys Myaths]

[ QUOTE ]
Adding in a whopping 2 BB just because you're in the blinds = not very wise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain.

My BIGGEST pet peeve with this place lately is that there's rarely an explanation for sweeping generalizations, and nobody learns a damn thing.

Why wouldn't it be a good idea to reduce implied odds when we'll be OOP for the rest of the hand? Seems extremely logical.

[Vyse]

I add 1 extra BB when I'm in the SB and sometimes the BB. Adding 2 is simply overkill. It'd be like raising 5xBB as our standard and not 4xBB. It makes that much of a difference in being called, and it's really not that much of a big deal -- we're trying to get a little extra value, not scare everyone away. PP are also very easy to play in the blinds (or anywhere) anyway.

[Keys Myaths]

[ QUOTE ]
PP are also very easy to play in the blinds (or anywhere) anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know we're not playing AA for set value, correct? /images/graemlins/smile.gif Or, did you mean high PP?

[Keys Myaths]

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It makes that much of a difference in being called,

[/ QUOTE ]

BTW--this is where we disagree. In my experience, that extra 1-2BB means very little, especially to people who have already limped in.

[Vyse]

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PP are also very easy to play in the blinds (or anywhere) anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know we're not playing AA for set value, correct? /images/graemlins/smile.gif Or, did you mean high PP?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I mean all PP are very easy to play.

[Keys Myaths]

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PP are also very easy to play in the blinds (or anywhere) anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know we're not playing AA for set value, correct? /images/graemlins/smile.gif Or, did you mean high PP?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I mean all PP are very easy to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I was making fun of you for lumping in AA with every other pocket pair.

It was a joke, Sammy. Relax.

[ssdex]

raise to 3 or 3.5 with aces= perfectly standard= esp with limpers=== if you raise to 2 or 2.5 here you'll get a lot of hands and possibly more callers, you want to play heads up oop with pp in the blinds, not 3 or 4 way pots

[MJBuddy]

You never, ever, want to show hand strength ranges through your raises other than "I have a strong hand!"

[Vyse]

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PP are also very easy to play in the blinds (or anywhere) anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know we're not playing AA for set value, correct? /images/graemlins/smile.gif Or, did you mean high PP?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I mean all PP are very easy to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I was making fun of you for lumping in AA with every other pocket pair.

It was a joke, Sammy. Relax.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was relaxed until you told me to relax when I was already relaxed. Now I am not relaxed.

[Keys Myaths]

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You never, ever, want to show hand strength ranges through your raises other than "I have a strong hand!"

[/ QUOTE ]

NOBODY is saying that here. Nobody said we want to raise more because we have aces.

And Sklansky would disagree with your statement.

[MJBuddy]

[ QUOTE ]
raise to 3 or 3.5 with aces= perfectly standard= esp with limpers=== if you raise to 2 or 2.5 here you'll get a lot of hands and possibly more callers, you want to play heads up oop with pp in the blinds, not 3 or 4 way pots

[/ QUOTE ]

It was said; thus I responded.

[Keys Myaths]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise to 3 or 3.5 with aces= perfectly standard= esp with limpers=== if you raise to 2 or 2.5 here you'll get a lot of hands and possibly more callers, you want to play heads up oop with pp in the blinds, not 3 or 4 way pots

[/ QUOTE ]

It was said; thus I responded.

[/ QUOTE ]

3 or 3.5, I took it, should be standard. (Actually, more than that should be standard).

[JackSevenSuited]

I understand where your coming from in the second hand, about raising the turn but i hope you saw my logic. I was in position and had a feeling he had the ace. Whats wrong with letting another card drop and getting him to do the dirty work for me (assuming he had an ace or even KK, QQ, or JJ. By not raising at any point throughout the hand i appear weak and therefore give him the opportunity and motive to push or at least bet with worse hands. He had 4 outs, is giving him a free card that dangerous??

[MJBuddy]

[ QUOTE ]
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raise to 3 or 3.5 with aces= perfectly standard= esp with limpers=== if you raise to 2 or 2.5 here you'll get a lot of hands and possibly more callers, you want to play heads up oop with pp in the blinds, not 3 or 4 way pots

[/ QUOTE ]

It was said; thus I responded.

[/ QUOTE ]

3 or 3.5, I took it, should be standard. (Actually, more than that should be standard).

[/ QUOTE ]

I may have misread his post (or you mine). I'm unsure hehe. I took it as a suggestion to manipulate your raises depending on whether or not you have aces. Wasn't a comment regarding the heated discussion taking place.

[MJBuddy]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand where your coming from in the second hand, about raising the turn but i hope you saw my logic. I was in position and had a feeling he had the ace. Whats wrong with letting another card drop and getting him to do the dirty work for me (assuming he had an ace or even KK, QQ, or JJ. By not raising at any point throughout the hand i appear weak and therefore give him the opportunity and motive to push or at least bet with worse hands. He had 4 outs, is giving him a free card that dangerous??

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally not; but it's not about danger per say, it's about getting his money in the pot before either he can escape his hand or you can overthink yourself into a bad fold because of his aggression. Imagine if he didn't bet that river, would he call your all-in bet on the river with the flush draw and a paired board? He'd be beaten by so many hands if he had trips that he may make a smart fold; he's only calling with the flush and the FH(here I'm betting he's pushing the flush all the same). But if he was scared by that card, you lost the rest of his stack that you could have taken on the turn.

Here I'm more concerned with getting the most in the pot per street than I am about letting him catch up a bit. He seems like he's in love with his hand regardless of what comes though. Any chance you could PM me the hand? I had him on three hands pretty much from the start, Qs10s being more likely and Js10S next with A10 much less likely due to his strong betting when he should be "letting you catch up" and the simple low odds that he has it.

[Waingro]

1. fold
2. push turn it is not close. He is basically calling with his entire range here and you are ahead 90%+. Slowplaying underboats is not that great.

[AASoooted]

[ QUOTE ]
I had him on three hands pretty much from the start, Qs10s being more likely and Js10S next with A10 much less likely due to his strong betting when he should be "letting you catch up" and the simple low odds that he has it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? It has to be AK and he got lucky and caught his 5-outer on the river. I do agree with the consensus that a push on the turn is ideal.

The first hand is a fold and I would expect that to be a set most of the time.

[Check_The_Nuts]

hand 1 maybe, but probably not to unknown for me.

hand 2 what the hell are you doing on the turn.

[Jeans]

I would insta-call both, but that's just me /images/graemlins/laugh.gif