Jerry Falwell Goes to Heaven

[Zeno]

Sordid details: TV Evangelist Falwell Dies (http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2007/05/15/664210.html)

"The big, blue-eyed preacher with a booming voice started a fundamentalist church in an abandoned bottling plant in Lynchburg in 1956 with just 35 members. He built it into a religious empire that included the 24,000-member Thomas Road Baptist Church, the "Old Time Gospel Hour" carried on TV stations around the country and 9,600-student Liberty University, which Falwell founded in 1971 as Lynchburg Baptist College.

Falwell quit the Moral Majority in 1987 [which he founded], saying he was tired of being "a lightning rod" and wanted to devote his time to his ministry and Liberty University. But he remained outspoken and continued to draw criticism for his remarks.

In 1999, he told an evangelical conference that the Antichrist was a male Jew who was probably already alive. Falwell later apologized for the remark but not for holding the belief. A month later, his National Liberty Journal warned parents that Tinky Winky, the children's TV character, was a gay role model and morally damaging to children."

************************************************** *****

With the above list of mighty accomplishments and wise observations in the name of The Lord, and many more not mentioned, Rev. Falwell surely has a large Gold Mansion in Heaven, right next to John Calvin, just down the street from God Himself no doubt, in the uber Holy Trinity Suburb. Jews not allowed.

Being a prisoner of God in Heaven for all eternity is justice for this man. Hope he likes it.

-Zeno

[m_the0ry]

I am happy that this man is dead.

[AWoodside]

Wow, I don't think a death has ever made me this happy.

[JussiUt]

It's hard for me to imagine being genuinely happy about some person's death but the more I hear about this guy the more I understand those people who are.

[PairTheBoard]

This might be an extra good time to get in a poker game with Larry Flynt. I imagine he feels pretty fast and loose right now.

PairTheBoard

[AlexM]

Once upon a time people were respectful towards the recently deceased, regardless of how they felt about them. It's very sad that that's is no longer true. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[PLOlover]

this guy was a man of god about as much as the pres is a country bumpkin hillbilly born and raised in texas.

[Hopey]

[ QUOTE ]
Once upon a time people were respectful towards the recently deceased, regardless of how they felt about them. It's very sad that that's is no longer true. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Give me a break. I highly doubt that people were more respectful in the past when the evil people of their time died.

America is a better place with this intolerant buffoon rotting in the ground.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Once upon a time people were respectful towards the recently deceased, regardless of how they felt about them. It's very sad that that's is no longer true. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

They also didn't have large public mediums from which they could anonymously talk about how they really felt.

[AWoodside]

[ QUOTE ]
Once upon a time people were respectful towards the recently deceased, regardless of how they felt about them. It's very sad that that's is no longer true. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding? Give me one good reason I should be respectful. The world is a much much worse place for thousands of people because of this man.

[That Foreign Guy]

I guess he'll find out pretty soon if 1) He was right about the whole God existing thing and if one is true then 2) If he was right about the whole God hating gay people thing.

[arahant]

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tmz.com/media/2007/05/pic-meet-char-tinkywinky.jpg

In case I did that wrong... TMZ (http://video.tmz.com/2007/05/15/jerry-falwell-1933-2007/)

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
Once upon a time people were respectful towards the recently deceased, regardless of how they felt about them. It's very sad that that's is no longer true. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? I don't care if people talk [censored] about me when I'm dead, so no version of the Golden Rule applies. Can't figure out any sort of utilitarian argument for why we can't be glad a giant douchebag isn't still spreading hate.

Care to elaborate on why this is so frowny-face?

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Once upon a time people were respectful towards the recently deceased, regardless of how they felt about them. It's very sad that that's is no longer true.


[/ QUOTE ]




Why? I don't care if people talk [censored] about me when I'm dead, so no version of the Golden Rule applies. Can't figure out any sort of utilitarian argument for why we can't be glad a giant douchebag isn't still spreading hate.

Care to elaborate on why this is so frowny-face?



[/ QUOTE ]


You can state that you are happy that the founder of the Moral Majority is no longer spreading hate and diffuse the issue to the political arena. But to state that he is a douchebag at a time when his family and friends are hugely grieving, just seems mean spirited. Especially if his family are avid twoplustwo fans.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Once upon a time people were respectful towards the recently deceased, regardless of how they felt about them. It's very sad that that's is no longer true.


[/ QUOTE ]




Why? I don't care if people talk [censored] about me when I'm dead, so no version of the Golden Rule applies. Can't figure out any sort of utilitarian argument for why we can't be glad a giant douchebag isn't still spreading hate.

Care to elaborate on why this is so frowny-face?



[/ QUOTE ]


You can state that you are happy that the founder of the Moral Majority is no longer spreading hate and diffuse the issue to the political arena. But to state that he is a douchebag at a time when his family and friends are hugely grieving, just seems mean spirited. Especially if his family are avid twoplustwo fans.

[/ QUOTE ]

They aren't, but if they were....too bad, I guess? I mean, I suppose its no fault of their own that they chose to be his family, except for possibly his wife. But them's the breaks. If they choose to think their Dad isn't a huge douchebag, then good for them, why should my comments impact them if his entire lifetime of comments didn't?

Either way, I'm having a hard time following your argument. I would not care if some internet random was badmouthing my dad/brother/wife after they died, so I really have no reason not to bash him.

Its like you have some vague, traditional idea that this is distasteful...but can you actually defend it? It just IS wrong?

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
They aren't, but if they were....too bad, I guess? I mean, I suppose its no fault of their own that they chose to be his family, except for possibly his wife. But them's the breaks. If they choose to think their Dad isn't a huge douchebag, then good for them, why should my comments impact them if his entire lifetime of comments didn't?

Either way, I'm having a hard time following your argument. I would not care if some internet random was badmouthing my dad/brother/wife after they died, so I really have no reason not to bash him.


[/ QUOTE ]

I was being facetious of course when I suggested they might be twoplustwo fans. My ex had a lot of problems and her friends as well as mine, criticized her to me. But I would be hugely upset if she died, problems and all, and people chose at that point to criticize her.

I understand we are just anonymous internet posters, and I’m not criticizing you in any way. Just trying to point out a reason why this is perhaps bad timing for making critical remarks.

You say: “ I would not care if some internet random was badmouthing my dad/brother/wife after they died.”

I’m saying, I’m more sensitive, and would care (if I thought highly of the badmouther's intelligence, which I do yours) So we are not going to see eye to eye. I’m certainly not defending Falwell’s actions

edit - I realize it's a stretch to think his family has any notion of your intelligence, so my whole argument is probably mute

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They aren't, but if they were....too bad, I guess? I mean, I suppose its no fault of their own that they chose to be his family, except for possibly his wife. But them's the breaks. If they choose to think their Dad isn't a huge douchebag, then good for them, why should my comments impact them if his entire lifetime of comments didn't?

Either way, I'm having a hard time following your argument. I would not care if some internet random was badmouthing my dad/brother/wife after they died, so I really have no reason not to bash him.


[/ QUOTE ]

I was being facetious of course when I suggested they might be twoplustwo fans. My ex had a lot of problems and her friends as well as mine, criticized her to me. But I would be hugely upset if she died, problems and all, and people chose at that point to criticize her.

I understand we are just anonymous internet posters, and I’m not criticizing you in any way. Just trying to point out a reason why this is perhaps bad timing for making critical remarks.

You say: “ I would not care if some internet random was badmouthing my dad/brother/wife after they died.”

I’m saying, I’m more sensitive, and would care (if I thought highly of the badmouther's intelligence, which I do yours) So we are not going to see eye to eye. I’m certainly not defending Falwell’s actions

edit - I realize it's a stretch to think his family has any notion of your intelligence, so my whole argument is probably mute

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, you are probably correct. There are few things I dislike more than causing suffering in anyone, and if his family were in front of me, I would certainly not take the opportunity to make some grand moral point. This is probably just attributable to Internet Tough Guy Disorder.

[vhawk01]

Quick Q though, does it matter HOW BAD the guy was? I mean, would you be making this same post when Hitler died? I'm not comparing him to Hitler, just wondering if your argument applies at all times whenever ANYONE dies.

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
just seems mean spirited

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree yukoncpa. It's really a spiritual issue more than a moral one. We do well for ourselves to avoid a spirit of hate regardless of the circumstances. I certainly misread Larry Flynt in my comment above. It turns out he is too big a man for that kind of thing. I understand he will be on Larry King tonight and interviewed for his thoughts about Falwell. See below the statement he released about Falwell's death.


Larry Flynt - from link (http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/1890)
-----------------------------
"The Reverend Jerry Falwell and I were arch enemies for fifteen years. We became involved in a lawsuit concerning First Amendment rights and Hustler magazine. Without question, this was my most important battle – the l988 Hustler Magazine, Inc., v. Jerry Falwell case, where after millions of dollars and much deliberation, the Supreme Court unanimously ruled in my favor.

My mother always told me that no matter how much you dislike a person, when you meet them face to face you will find characteristics about them that you like. Jerry Falwell was a perfect example of that. I hated everything he stood for, but after meeting him in person, years after the trial, Jerry Falwell and I became good friends. He would visit me in California and we would debate together on college campuses. I always appreciated his sincerity even though I knew what he was selling and he knew what I was selling.

The most important result of our relationship was the landmark decision from the Supreme Court that made parody protected speech, and the fact that much of what we see on television and hear on the radio today is a direct result of my having won that now famous case which Falwell played such an important role in."
----------------------------



PairTheBoard

[Kaj]

[ QUOTE ]
Once upon a time people were respectful towards the recently deceased, regardless of how they felt about them. It's very sad that that's is no longer true. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How many respects did the world pay Stalin or Hitler? Not equating Falwell with either, but if a man is perceived as spreading hate, why on earth should we respect him with silence at a time when the world is talking about his life and its impact?

Incidentally, I think our society's problem is that we pay TOO much respect to the deceased rather than analyze their life objectively as a lesson for all. The media's (and nation as a whole) fawning over itself to pay tribute to Nixon upon his death is a case in point.

[Hopey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Once upon a time people were respectful towards the recently deceased, regardless of how they felt about them. It's very sad that that's is no longer true. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How many respects did the world pay Stalin or Hitler? Not equating Falwell with either, but if a man is perceived as spreading hate, why on earth should we respect him with silence at a time when the world is talking about his life and its impact?

Incidentally, I think our society's problem is that we pay TOO much respect to the deceased rather than analyze their life objectively as a lesson for all. The media's (and nation as a whole) fawning over itself to pay tribute to Nixon upon his death is a case in point.

[/ QUOTE ]

This link was posted in OOT, but it bears mentioning here: Christopher Hitchens article on Jerry Falwell (http://www.slate.com/id/2166337/)

[Kaj]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Once upon a time people were respectful towards the recently deceased, regardless of how they felt about them. It's very sad that that's is no longer true. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How many respects did the world pay Stalin or Hitler? Not equating Falwell with either, but if a man is perceived as spreading hate, why on earth should we respect him with silence at a time when the world is talking about his life and its impact?

Incidentally, I think our society's problem is that we pay TOO much respect to the deceased rather than analyze their life objectively as a lesson for all. The media's (and nation as a whole) fawning over itself to pay tribute to Nixon upon his death is a case in point.

[/ QUOTE ]

This link was posted in OOT, but it bears mentioning here: Christopher Hitchens article on Jerry Falwell (http://www.slate.com/id/2166337/)

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, Hopey. Interesting read. Off topic, but use of the word "treason" is getting out of hand -- Hitchens says Falwell committed treason for stating that the 9/11 attacks were due punishment for Americans. Foaming at the mouth and use of "treason" seem highly correlated and tend to dilute rather than enhance one's message.

[arahant]

[ QUOTE ]
Hitchens says Falwell committed treason for stating that the 9/11 attacks were due punishment for Americans. Foaming at the mouth and use of "treason" seem highly correlated and tend to dilute rather than enhance one's message.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha....that IS pretty stupid. I think the guy was a dick for saying that, but I doubt he changed minds. I find it more disturbing that there are undoubtedly a lot of people agreeing with him.

I like Hitchens because I agree with on so much, but I must admit, he is becoming dangerously close to being an 'Ann Coulter of the Left'.

Edit: Though of course, Ann can't match his wit or intelligence /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[Hopey]

Yeah, the use of the word "treason" in the article jumped out at me as well. However, that was the only part of the article that I had any sort of quibble with. The rest of it is spot on.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Once upon a time people were respectful towards the recently deceased, regardless of how they felt about them. It's very sad that that's is no longer true. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How many respects did the world pay Stalin or Hitler? Not equating Falwell with either, but if a man is perceived as spreading hate, why on earth should we respect him with silence at a time when the world is talking about his life and its impact?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you're better than him?

[ QUOTE ]
Incidentally, I think our society's problem is that we pay TOO much respect to the deceased rather than analyze their life objectively as a lesson for all. The media's (and nation as a whole) fawning over itself to pay tribute to Nixon upon his death is a case in point.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a large difference between the week after someone's death and say 6 months later.

[hlacheen]

My condolences to the family, but he was an ignorant, evil, hateful person, and the world is now better off.


...in my opinion.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Once upon a time people were respectful towards the recently deceased, regardless of how they felt about them. It's very sad that that's is no longer true. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How many respects did the world pay Stalin or Hitler? Not equating Falwell with either, but if a man is perceived as spreading hate, why on earth should we respect him with silence at a time when the world is talking about his life and its impact?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you're better than him?

[ QUOTE ]
Incidentally, I think our society's problem is that we pay TOO much respect to the deceased rather than analyze their life objectively as a lesson for all. The media's (and nation as a whole) fawning over itself to pay tribute to Nixon upon his death is a case in point.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a large difference between the week after someone's death and say 6 months later.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like....24 weeks or so?

Can't we be better than him but not infinitely better than him? Also, hating homosexuals != hating bigots, I hope thats obvious.

FWIW, I don't hate him, I'm pretty sure I don't hate anyone, but I'm still glad he is dead. The world is better off with him dead = I'm glad. I don't get why this is so bad?

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
The world is better off with him dead

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder if Falwell's life didn't serve a useful purpose. It is difficult to fight the kind of intolerence and bigotry that is hidden and indemic. The kind where you can never prove you were discriminated against. Falwell took on a role of the personification of a lot of that bigotry. In his attempts to promote and broadcast it he also brought the darkness out to where the light could shine on it. It may be in that process the darkness will be more thoroughly extingished than if it were to have remained sheltered in its hidden places.

PairTheBoard

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The world is better off with him dead

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder if Falwell's life didn't serve a useful purpose. It is difficult to fight the kind of intolerence and bigotry that is hidden and indemic. The kind where you can never prove you were discriminated against. Falwell took on a role of the personification of a lot of that bigotry. In his attempts to promote and broadcast it he also brought the darkness out to where the light could shine on it. It may be in that process the darkness will be more thoroughly extingished than if it were to have remained sheltered in its hidden places.

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]

He can't serve as that example while dead, all the while no longer contributing any extra hate?

I mean, lets be careful not to say that some horrific action was GOOD because there is X silver lining, but merely recognize that X silver lining exists which ameliorates SOME of the BAD that the action did.

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean, lets be careful not to say that some horrific action was GOOD

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I was careful not to say that.

PairTheBoard