How do Christians Still follow the bible?

[BillNye]

I was considering posting this earlier, but after This Thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=10270091&an=0&page=0&gon ew=1#UNREAD) I figure I'll go ahead. As somebody who has gone to Catholic Schooling and taken religion classes it would natural that I would follow the bible. This is not the case though, anybody who has followed Catholicism should understand where I am coming from. The bible is an extremely outdated document which is only still around because the church comes out and says "hmm, the bible says something that make no sense and it has been proven wrong... no biggie, it must have been figurative!" Why would God/Holy Spirit need to inspire people to write figuratively? The argument is that religion is so in-depth and so hard for our minds to comprehend that we must be given figurative stories and metaphors to grasp its deeper meaning. So now that we are advanced, one could assume that the church could rule out figurative/literal on every story, but obviously they dont do that cuz when science proves something wrong they need to beable to label something figurative to keep its credability. It is is extremely annoying to me when people jump through hoops in attempt to make something "make sense" from the bible when in reality, it was written 2000 years ago, and like anything 2,000 years old it flat out dosnt make sense in most cases.

Another thing is, check out the inconsistancy between the old testament and the new testament. Did God change his mind or did people (who I would argue wrote the bible as in w/o inspiration from the holy spirit) change their mind? I go w/ the latter.

I really wanna hear a devout-christian give a good response.

Edit: Basically I don't get how people can blindly follow a given religion in this case Catholics and the bible.

[dknightx]

[ QUOTE ]
The bible is an extremely outdated document which is only still around because the church comes out and says "hmm, the bible says something that make no sense and it has been proven wrong... no biggie, it must have been figurative!" Why would God/Holy Spirit need to inspire people to write figuratively? The argument is that religion is so in-depth and so hard for our minds to comprehend that we must be given figurative stories and metaphors to grasp its deeper meaning. So now that we are advanced, one could assume that the church could rule out figurative/literal on every story, but obviously they dont do that cuz when science proves something wrong they need to beable to label something figurative to keep its credability.


[/ QUOTE ]
examples please.

[ QUOTE ]

Another thing is, check out the inconsistancy between the old testament and the new testament. Did God change his mind or did people (who I would argue wrote the bible as in w/o inspiration from the holy spirit) change their mind? I go w/ the latter.

I really wanna hear a devout-christian give a good response.

[/ QUOTE ]

i used google, and this page is a decent start:

http://www.bible-knowledge.com/Old-testament-vs-New-testament.html

btw, im not catholic, so maybe you arent looking for my response.

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
i used google, and this page is a decent start:

http://www.bible-knowledge.com/Old-testament-vs-New-testament.html

btw, im not catholic, so maybe you arent looking for my response.



[/ QUOTE ]

From your link ( when explaining why God is sometimes so bloody in the old Testament ):

[ QUOTE ]
The best analogy that I can give you on this is just imagine you were married, had several children and all of a sudden you found out that somebody was going to try to kill one of your children. What do you think your natural reaction would be? I have heard mother after mother say to me, without batting an eye, that if anyone would try to seriously hurt one of their own children - they would have no problems in literally killing that person dead if they had to.

This right here is the exact same type of wrath and anger that God Himself has when protecting His own. This is why the Old Testament is so bloody in all of the battles that are described in it. Half of those bloody battles had to do with God the Father defeating all of Israel’s enemies in actual warfare and combat.



[/ QUOTE ]
So Israel's enemies are not children of God? I thought everyone was God's children. This analogy is no good, because any decent parent is not going to choose favorites among her children, especially to the point of killing her unfavorites. If her children are hell bent on killing themselves, a loving mother, who has the power, will put a stop to the bloodshed, not exasperate it.

[dknightx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i used google, and this page is a decent start:

http://www.bible-knowledge.com/Old-testament-vs-New-testament.html

btw, im not catholic, so maybe you arent looking for my response.



[/ QUOTE ]

From your link ( when explaining why God is sometimes so bloody in the old Testament ):

[ QUOTE ]
The best analogy that I can give you on this is just imagine you were married, had several children and all of a sudden you found out that somebody was going to try to kill one of your children. What do you think your natural reaction would be? I have heard mother after mother say to me, without batting an eye, that if anyone would try to seriously hurt one of their own children - they would have no problems in literally killing that person dead if they had to.

This right here is the exact same type of wrath and anger that God Himself has when protecting His own. This is why the Old Testament is so bloody in all of the battles that are described in it. Half of those bloody battles had to do with God the Father defeating all of Israel’s enemies in actual warfare and combat.



[/ QUOTE ]
So Israel's enemies are not children of God? I thought everyone was God's children. This analogy is no good, because any decent parent is not going to choose favorites among her children, especially to the point of killing her unfavorites. If her children are hell bent on killing themselves, a loving mother, who has the power, will put a stop to the bloodshed, not exasperate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Israelites are Gods chosen people ... not sure where the whole "everyone is God's child" comes from. Plus I only said that the website was a "decent" start, so feel free to like or dislike its explanation.

[bigpooch]

[ QUOTE ]
So Israel's enemies are not children of God? I thought everyone was God's children.

[/ QUOTE ]

John 1:1-13

The Word Became Flesh

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]

The Israelites are Gods chosen people ... not sure where the whole "everyone is God's child" comes from. Plus I only said that the website was a "decent" start, so feel free to like or dislike its explanation.

[/ QUOTE ]

We could probably have a whole thread on this topic.

God creating a bunch of different races and then choosing one of them as his favorites is ridiculous. It's no wonder people of the past have had such an easy time using the bible to justify their racism.

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
The bible is an extremely outdated document which is only still around because the church comes out and says "hmm, the bible says something that make no sense and it has been proven wrong... no biggie, it must have been figurative!" Why would God/Holy Spirit need to inspire people to write figuratively? The argument is that religion is so in-depth and so hard for our minds to comprehend that we must be given figurative stories and metaphors to grasp its deeper meaning. So now that we are advanced, one could assume that the church could rule out figurative/literal on every story, but obviously they dont do that cuz when science proves something wrong they need to beable to label something figurative to keep its credability.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


examples please.



[/ QUOTE ]

The flood covered the whole earth
All animals were originally herbivores
Men have one less rib then women (this wasn’t proved wrong until the 1500's and caused quite a fuss)
Bats are birds
diseases, like leprosy, are caused by the wrath of God or by Satan
The value of pi is 3
Earthquakes are caused by God getting mad
The slime trail of snails is them melting

These are just a very small sample of scientific gems from the bible.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
Men have one less rib then women (this wasn’t proved wrong until the 1500's and caused quite a fuss)

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait this isn't true?

[Taraz]

I'm not a Christian and I don't believe in any literal interpretation of the bible, but I don't think the "God changed his mind" argument is an issue at all. It could easily be that God sends messages that will be received well. Maybe humanity was not ready to accept Jesus's message way back in the day.

Think of it like school. You don't teach first grader algebra. You teach him slowly and build upon what you taught him previously. I think it's called Progressive Revelation. This view of religion seems to make some sort of sense to me.

[dknightx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The bible is an extremely outdated document which is only still around because the church comes out and says "hmm, the bible says something that make no sense and it has been proven wrong... no biggie, it must have been figurative!" Why would God/Holy Spirit need to inspire people to write figuratively? The argument is that religion is so in-depth and so hard for our minds to comprehend that we must be given figurative stories and metaphors to grasp its deeper meaning. So now that we are advanced, one could assume that the church could rule out figurative/literal on every story, but obviously they dont do that cuz when science proves something wrong they need to beable to label something figurative to keep its credability.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


examples please.



[/ QUOTE ]

The flood covered the whole earth
All animals were originally herbivores
Men have one less rib then women (this wasn’t proved wrong until the 1500's and caused quite a fuss)
Bats are birds
diseases, like leprosy, are caused by the wrath of God or by Satan
The value of pi is 3
Earthquakes are caused by God getting mad
The slime trail of snails is them melting

These are just a very small sample of scientific gems from the bible.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have no idea where you got 1/2 of these, and the other half, its easy to just say that God causes X via how it is scientifically explained. That doesn't mean God wasn't the catalyst.

[SNOWBALL]

dkx,

how in the hell is god protecting his "children" when he says that you HAVE TO stone your family if they suggest you worship another god? What plight is god saving you from when he says that a woman has to marry a man who rapes her? Who is being saved from destruction when god says that if a women is engaged to be married and is raped in the city, then both the man who raped her and the woman must be stoned to death?

Almost nothing that can be imagined is more evil and terrible than the laws given by the bible. They weren't "the best wisdom of the time." Basically, you almost could not possibly do worse than those laws.

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
The flood covered the whole earth
All animals were originally herbivores
Men have one less rib then women (this wasn’t proved wrong until the 1500's and caused quite a fuss)
Bats are birds
diseases, like leprosy, are caused by the wrath of God or by Satan
The value of pi is 3
Earthquakes are caused by God getting mad
The slime trail of snails is them melting

These are just a very small sample of scientific gems from the bible.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



i have no idea where you got 1/2 of these, and the other half, its easy to just say that God causes X via how it is scientifically explained. That doesn't mean God wasn't the catalyst.



[/ QUOTE ]

The flood covered the whole earth - genesis 7:20
All animals were originally herbivores - genesis 1:30
Men have one less rib then women (this wasn’t proved wrong until the 1500's and caused quite a fuss) - genesis 2:19
Bats are birds - Leviticus 11:13, 19 / Deuteronomy 14:11, 18
diseases, like leprosy, are caused by the wrath of God or by Satan - Numbers 12:10
The value of pi is 3 - 2 Chronicles 4:2
Earthquakes are caused by God getting mad - Psalms 18:7
The slime trail of snails is them melting - Psalms 58:8

[ill rich]

we try really hard.

[arahant]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The bible is an extremely outdated document which is only still around because the church comes out and says "hmm, the bible says something that make no sense and it has been proven wrong... no biggie, it must have been figurative!" Why would God/Holy Spirit need to inspire people to write figuratively? The argument is that religion is so in-depth and so hard for our minds to comprehend that we must be given figurative stories and metaphors to grasp its deeper meaning. So now that we are advanced, one could assume that the church could rule out figurative/literal on every story, but obviously they dont do that cuz when science proves something wrong they need to beable to label something figurative to keep its credability.


[/ QUOTE ]
examples please.

[ QUOTE ]

Another thing is, check out the inconsistancy between the old testament and the new testament. Did God change his mind or did people (who I would argue wrote the bible as in w/o inspiration from the holy spirit) change their mind? I go w/ the latter.

I really wanna hear a devout-christian give a good response.

[/ QUOTE ]

i used google, and this page is a decent start:

http://www.bible-knowledge.com/Old-testament-vs-New-testament.html

btw, im not catholic, so maybe you arent looking for my response.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL...god you people are dumb.

'Jesus meant that you don't have to sacrifice animals any more and no more stoning (i know it doesn't say this, but that is what he MEANT)...you still need to obey the laws that seem ok though, like no tattoos...I know, I know, it doesn't say ANY of this in the bible, but it's OBVIOUS...'

[censored]-A.

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]
The best analogy that I can give you on this is just imagine you were married, had several children and all of a sudden you found out that somebody was going to try to kill one of your children. What do you think your natural reaction would be? I have heard mother after mother say to me, without batting an eye, that if anyone would try to seriously hurt one of their own children - they would have no problems in literally killing that person dead if they had to.

This right here is the exact same type of wrath and anger that God Himself has when protecting His own. This is why the Old Testament is so bloody in all of the battles that are described in it. Half of those bloody battles had to do with God the Father defeating all of Israel’s enemies in actual warfare and combat.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, now I know why god sent that angel to kill all those Egyptian infants sleeping in their cribs. He was just being protective of his "children".

Give me a freaking break.

[MidGe]

Lets not forget the sacrifice demanded of Abraham. Enough for the mother of his child to have killed god. I somehow wish she had, it would make arhe bible a little bit less immoral.

[dknightx]

i love this thread, i think im done with SMP though ... atheists win!

[PLOlover]

organized religions like catholics or protestants don't follow the bible. simple as that.

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]
organized religions like catholics or protestants don't follow the bible. simple as that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Regardless they still worship a god who is continually described in their holy book as vengeful, petulant, and barbaric.

[andyfox]

"It may be demanded, Why should you be so furious? (as some have said). Should not Christians have more mercy and compassion? But I would refer you to David's war. When a people is grown to such a height of blood and sin against God and man and all confederates in the action, there he hath no respects to persons, but harrows them and saws them, and puts them to the sword, and the most terriblest death that may be. Sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents. Sometimes the case alters; but we will not dispute it now. We had sufficient light from the Word of God for our proceedings."

-John Underhill, 1638, defending the massacre of the Pequots [a particularly apt tribe to speak of on a poker site] at ther Mystic River village in 1637


"The whole continent of North America appears to be destined by Divine Providence to be peopled by one nation, speaking one language, professing one general system of religious and political principles, and accustomed to one general tenor of social usages and customs."

-John Quincy Adams, 1811


"It seems to me that God, with infinite wisdom and skill, is training the Anglo-Saxon race for an hour sure to come in the worlds future. The lands of the earth are limited, and soon will be taken. Then will the world enter upon a new stage in its history--the final competition of the races. Then this race of unequaled energy, with the majesty of numbers and the might of wealth behind it--the representative of the largest liberty, the purest Christianity, the highest civilization... will spread itself over the earth."

-Minister Josiah Strong, 1885

[arahant]

[ QUOTE ]
"It seems to me that God, with infinite wisdom and skill, is training the Anglo-Saxon race for an hour sure to come in the worlds future. The lands of the earth are limited, and soon will be taken. Then will the world enter upon a new stage in its history--the final competition of the races. Then this race of unequaled energy, with the majesty of numbers and the might of wealth behind it--the representative of the largest liberty, the purest Christianity, the highest civilization... will spread itself over the earth."

-Minister Josiah Strong, 1885

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously a man unfamiliar with Asia.

[PairTheBoard]

Try looking at the Old Testament like this. A record of a people coming to terms with a God which they were only beginning to understand. They were trying to turn away from Hate and toward Love but their understanding of God was often tainted by the Hate that was still in them. They often projected attributes of their Hate onto that which they called God and justified acts of Hate accordingly. In their primitive attempts at righteousness they often created brutal laws. With little understanding of the natural world they routinely gave supernatural explanations for things. They made up stories to illustrate principles. They used symbolic, metaphoric, and allegorical language.

Despite all this they progressed spiritually. Look at the Old Testament as a record of spiritual experience and progress. They had spiritual insights along the way. Consider the insights in context of the times and use your own judgement as to how advanced they were. If you find wisdom in the midst of primitive noise, take the wisdom and respect the experience of the lives led. They are our ancestors and our relations in the human struggle. Have some empathy for the difficulties they lived with.

Can you see Love emerging out of all that historical tumult? Can you see Love emerging out of that people who were so clearly infected with atributes of Hate? Can you see Love Fullfilled in the New Testament? If so, you have found the Bible to be the Word of God because God's Word is his essence and the essence of God is Love.

PairTheBoard

[MegaloMialo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The flood covered the whole earth
All animals were originally herbivores
Men have one less rib then women (this wasn’t proved wrong until the 1500's and caused quite a fuss)
Bats are birds
diseases, like leprosy, are caused by the wrath of God or by Satan
The value of pi is 3
Earthquakes are caused by God getting mad
The slime trail of snails is them melting

These are just a very small sample of scientific gems from the bible.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



i have no idea where you got 1/2 of these, and the other half, its easy to just say that God causes X via how it is scientifically explained. That doesn't mean God wasn't the catalyst.



[/ QUOTE ]

The flood covered the whole earth - genesis 7:20
All animals were originally herbivores - genesis 1:30
Men have one less rib then women (this wasn’t proved wrong until the 1500's and caused quite a fuss) - genesis 2:19
Bats are birds - Leviticus 11:13, 19 / Deuteronomy 14:11, 18
diseases, like leprosy, are caused by the wrath of God or by Satan - Numbers 12:10
The value of pi is 3 - 2 Chronicles 4:2
Earthquakes are caused by God getting mad - Psalms 18:7
The slime trail of snails is them melting - Psalms 58:8

[/ QUOTE ]

dknightx, where did you go?

[andyfox]

Well, he did say an "hour" to come. Hour's up.

[BillNye]

[ QUOTE ]
organized religions like catholics or protestants don't follow the bible. simple as that.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is wrong, they dont follow it word for word, but they follow it (every single part). They still follow it though, it is constantly read out of during a catholic mass. Also why woudlnt they follow the inspired writings of the holy spirit...

[BillNye]

[ QUOTE ]
Try looking at the Old Testament like this. A record of a people coming to terms with a God which they were only beginning to understand. They were trying to turn away from Hate and toward Love but their understanding of God was often tainted by the Hate that was still in them. They often projected attributes of their Hate onto that which they called God and justified acts of Hate accordingly. In their primitive attempts at righteousness they often created brutal laws. With little understanding of the natural world they routinely gave supernatural explanations for things. They made up stories to illustrate principles. They used symbolic, metaphoric, and allegorical language.

Despite all this they progressed spiritually. Look at the Old Testament as a record of spiritual experience and progress. They had spiritual insights along the way. Consider the insights in context of the times and use your own judgement as to how advanced they were. If you find wisdom in the midst of primitive noise, take the wisdom and respect the experience of the lives led. They are our ancestors and our relations in the human struggle. Have some empathy for the difficulties they lived with.

Can you see Love emerging out of all that historical tumult? Can you see Love emerging out of that people who were so clearly infected with atributes of Hate? Can you see Love Fullfilled in the New Testament? If so, you have found the Bible to be the Word of God because God's Word is his essence and the essence of God is Love.

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]


good post

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
organized religions like catholics or protestants don't follow the bible. simple as that.



this is wrong, they dont follow it word for word, but they follow it (every single part). They still follow it though, it is constantly read out of during a catholic mass. Also why woudlnt they follow the inspired writings of the holy spirit...

[/ QUOTE ]

of courze they dont. says right in the bible don't eat fat. it says this is a perpetual ordinance to be observed no matter where you live and for all time. and we wonder why we got heart disease and stuff.

[arahant]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Try looking at the Old Testament like this. A record of a people coming to terms with a God which they were only beginning to understand. They were trying to turn away from Hate and toward Love but their understanding of God was often tainted by the Hate that was still in them. They often projected attributes of their Hate onto that which they called God and justified acts of Hate accordingly. In their primitive attempts at righteousness they often created brutal laws. With little understanding of the natural world they routinely gave supernatural explanations for things. They made up stories to illustrate principles. They used symbolic, metaphoric, and allegorical language.

Despite all this they progressed spiritually. Look at the Old Testament as a record of spiritual experience and progress. They had spiritual insights along the way. Consider the insights in context of the times and use your own judgement as to how advanced they were. If you find wisdom in the midst of primitive noise, take the wisdom and respect the experience of the lives led. They are our ancestors and our relations in the human struggle. Have some empathy for the difficulties they lived with.

Can you see Love emerging out of all that historical tumult? Can you see Love emerging out of that people who were so clearly infected with atributes of Hate? Can you see Love Fullfilled in the New Testament? If so, you have found the Bible to be the Word of God because God's Word is his essence and the essence of God is Love.

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]


good post

[/ QUOTE ]

How so?

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:

Quote:
Try looking at the Old Testament like this. A record of a people coming to terms with a God which they were only beginning to understand. They were trying to turn away from Hate and toward Love but their understanding of God was often tainted by the Hate that was still in them. They often projected attributes of their Hate onto that which they called God and justified acts of Hate accordingly. In their primitive attempts at righteousness they often created brutal laws. With little understanding of the natural world they routinely gave supernatural explanations for things. They made up stories to illustrate principles. They used symbolic, metaphoric, and allegorical language.

Despite all this they progressed spiritually. Look at the Old Testament as a record of spiritual experience and progress. They had spiritual insights along the way. Consider the insights in context of the times and use your own judgement as to how advanced they were. If you find wisdom in the midst of primitive noise, take the wisdom and respect the experience of the lives led. They are our ancestors and our relations in the human struggle. Have some empathy for the difficulties they lived with.

Can you see Love emerging out of all that historical tumult? Can you see Love emerging out of that people who were so clearly infected with atributes of Hate? Can you see Love Fullfilled in the New Testament? If so, you have found the Bible to be the Word of God because God's Word is his essence and the essence of God is Love.

PairTheBoard




good post



How so?

[/ QUOTE ]

love in the bible just means obeying god. So how do you show love for your neighbor, you follow commandments don't f his wife and stuff. I think a lot of people misinterpret the whole love thing.

[Gregatron]

[ QUOTE ]
love in the bible just means obeying god. So how do you show love for your neighbor, you follow commandments don't f his wife and stuff. I think a lot of people misinterpret the whole love thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

That kind of misses the point. God is the source of all things good and right, including love. Therefore it is impossible to truly love while not on some level obeying God.

For the record: i am agnostic, so I am only presenting the argument -- I am not making it.

[arahant]

[ QUOTE ]

love in the bible just means obeying god. So how do you show love for your neighbor, you follow commandments don't f his wife and stuff. I think a lot of people misinterpret the whole love thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Felt like love when i f'ed my neighbors wife.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
love in the bible just means obeying god. So how do you show love for your neighbor, you follow commandments don't f his wife and stuff. I think a lot of people misinterpret the whole love thing.



That kind of misses the point. God is the source of all things good and right, including love. Therefore it is impossible to truly love while not on some level obeying God.

For the record: i am agnostic, so I am only presenting the argument -- I am not making it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm saying the term "love" is defined in the bible the same way that "income" is defined in the income tax code, you have to look it up you can't just go by the general use of the term.

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

humanity is overrated.

[txag007]

[ QUOTE ]
The bible is an extremely outdated document which is only still around because the church comes out and says "hmm, the bible says something that make no sense and it has been proven wrong... no biggie, it must have been figurative!"

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
So now that we are advanced, one could assume that the church could rule out figurative/literal on every story, but obviously they dont do that cuz when science proves something wrong they need to beable to label something figurative to keep its credability.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
It is is extremely annoying to me when people jump through hoops in attempt to make something "make sense" from the bible when in reality, it was written 2000 years ago, and like anything 2,000 years old it flat out dosnt make sense in most cases.

[/ QUOTE ]
Examples??? How can you expect your reader to determine whether a passage in the Bible is actually meant to be literal or figurative without referencing it? And what in the Bible exactly has been proven wrong?

[ QUOTE ]
I really wanna hear a devout-christian give a good response.

[/ QUOTE ]
I really want to see a well thought out post first.

Poisoning the well: a form of Ad Hominem attack that occurs before the meat of an argument, biasing the audience against the opponent's side before he can present his case.

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]
Examples??? How can you expect your reader to determine whether a passage in the Bible is actually meant to be literal or figurative without referencing it? And what in the Bible exactly has been proven wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

OK I'll bite, how about these... literal or figurative?

[ QUOTE ]
14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam [g] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [h] and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman,'
for she was taken out of man."

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

[dknightx]

sigh ... ok i'll give this one more try, hopefully we can stay pleasent and have an actual conversation.

1. I'm not really sure what about this being literal you don't like. I interpret it as God created the moon, stars, and sun. Can you elaborate?

2. I'm guessing you are using this passage to say that the literal meaning of this passage is that all Men should have 1 less rib than women. I'm not sure where exactly it says that.

3. When God said "you will die" he was referring to their spirit. Or is it something else about the passage you are talking about?

Or maybe you just find the whole creation/adam+eve story to be ridiculous, and can't imagine how any intelligent person could believe this "story" to be true/literal?

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]

Or maybe you just find the whole creation/adam+eve story to be ridiculous, and can't imagine how any intelligent person could believe this "story" to be true/literal?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much, but txaq inferred that some bible passages are literal and some are figurative. I was just wondering which he felt those 3 passages from Genesis were. If some bible passages are figurative, how am I to know which ones? It seems pretty obvious to me that Genesis is just a creation myth like those found in almost every other culture. It's not meant to be a literal historical account of how the world was created. I think. But maybe I'm wrong and I should be taking it literally? How do I know?

[Peter666]

Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Why bring up the Old Testament when Jesus taught that He made a new covenant? Why expect Christians to explain or justify the old covenant when it is not their religion to begin with?

"Edit: Basically I don't get how people can blindly follow a given religion in this case Catholics and the bible."

The answer is because they don't blindly follow. They are animated by grace, faith, philosophy and theology.

Often people who argue against Christianity assume to know what Christians believe, when it is readily apparent that they know jack squat.

Perhaps the OP or others have questions regarding the teachings of Jesus Christ from the Bible which they would like explained.

[fluffpop62]

BillNye,

Does this mean that you are not Catholic? Does this mean you don't believe in God? Or organized religion?

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
BillNye,

Does this mean that you are not Catholic? Does this mean you don't believe in God? Or organized religion?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Bill's position is pretty well summed up in this phrase of his,

[ QUOTE ]
one could assume

[/ QUOTE ]

which also happens to be the case for a lot of people around here.

PairTheBoard

[themandude]

LOL I am glad that I am a atheist. Bible thumpers what do you say about dinosaurs lol ? The bible says the earth was created 7000 years ago. Well that's been proven wrong. Created in 7 days... wrong... more like over hundreds of millions of years.

The bible, and religion itself is a joke. Christians, Catholics, ect I don't know how you can still lie to yourselves and believe it anymore.

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL I am glad that I am a atheist. Bible thumpers what do you say about dinosaurs lol ? The bible says the earth was created 7000 years ago. Well that's been proven wrong. Created in 7 days... wrong... more like over hundreds of millions of years.

The bible, and religion itself is a joke. Christians, Catholics, ect I don't know how you can still lie to yourselves and believe it anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The bible says

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you're doing a little "Bible thumping" yourself there. Do you favor the right hand or the left when you wave it around in the air?

PairTheBoard

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LOL I am glad that I am a atheist. Bible thumpers what do you say about dinosaurs lol ? The bible says the earth was created 7000 years ago. Well that's been proven wrong. Created in 7 days... wrong... more like over hundreds of millions of years.

The bible, and religion itself is a joke. Christians, Catholics, ect I don't know how you can still lie to yourselves and believe it anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The bible says

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you're doing a little "Bible thumping" yourself there. Do you favor the right hand or the left when you wave it around in the air?

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL