50NL: The good old Protection v. Pot Control Conundrum on turn [Archive]

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Chomp

05-07-2007, 01:28 PM

Villain horrible 73/5/1 donk. A real heartbreaker. So a pretty unfathomable minraise/call 3b range IMO.

I'm sure we all have this conundrum 100 times a day.

What factors are we considering when we think about charging draws v. controlling the pot with our meh pair to that board?

Fwiw, when I look at the situation below the first thing I'm considering is board texture, so am inclined to think hero should check in this case, but if you think differently please say.

Thanks.

..................................................

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter (http://www.learnhowtoplaypokerfree.com/convert/convert.cgi) Courtesy of PokerZion.com (http://PokerZion.com)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($54.65)
CO ($51.70)
Hero ($48.05)
SB ($48.08)
BB ($27.65)
UTG ($53.66)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG raises to $1, MP calls $1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, UTG calls $5, MP folds.

Flop: ($13.75) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $9, UTG calls $9.

Turn: ($31.75) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero...

barryc83

05-07-2007, 01:34 PM

Who knows what this idiot has. I prefer to check here and value bet if he checks the river or call a small, <1/2 pot, river bet. How many hands on this guy?

EDIT: Also, this guys playing 75% of his hands so its not like hes only peeling the flop with a FD or Qx. Even this idiot might be able to fold 88 to a turn bet so I think checking is best.

Chomp

05-07-2007, 01:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Who knows what this idiot has. I prefer to check here and value bet if he checks the river or call a small, <1/2 pot, river bet. How many hands on this guy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not many hands on him (50 maybe), but I think that the VPIP stat settles down pretty quickly, and I had seen him do some ridiculous calling down/sucking out type stuff, so I wass very confident in my read on him as a nasty donk.

Fwiw, I like your line and took the same one. You suggest 2 possible outcomes on river (c/b or b/c), and you are right, one of those came to pass.

mrw8419

05-08-2007, 09:51 AM

If he's as passive as his stats say just try to check it down. Take him to value town when you're sure you got him.

kayfish77

05-08-2007, 10:22 AM

what? why are we valuebetting 3rd pair on the river. POSSIBLY call if he bets and you have a read that he can do that on a busted draw, but betting gets no value. like hes not calling u with 84 on the river.

Genz

05-08-2007, 10:43 AM

He might play 75% of his hands, but he only raises 5% of them preflop. And that contains minraises, because he is a huge fish and probably doesn't know much about correct bet sizes. The turn was horrible for OP, imo. I think there are almost no hands that we beat now other than 99, TT and the very unlikely AJs. I check behind and prepare myself to toss my hand.

barryc83

05-08-2007, 10:48 AM

Chomp,

When you're ready, plz show his river action.

Chomp

05-08-2007, 01:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Chomp,

When you're ready, plz show his river action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter (http://www.learnhowtoplaypokerfree.com/convert/convert.cgi) Courtesy of PokerZion.com (http://PokerZion.com)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($54.65)
CO ($51.70)
Hero ($48.05)
SB ($48.08)
BB ($27.65)
UTG ($53.66)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG raises to $1, MP calls $1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, UTG calls $5, MP folds.

Flop: ($13.75) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $9, UTG calls $9.

Turn: ($31.75) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: ($31.75) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $10.5, Hero calls $10.50.

Final Pot: $52.75

Results in white below:
UTG has 8h Jh (flush, king high).
Hero has Jd Js (two pair, kings and jacks).
Outcome: UTG wins $52.75.

.................................................

Hero's river call looks pretty horrible, but I convinced myself that this donk could conceivably have worse than JJ 20% of the time. Meh, probably not, but whatever.

Oh, and needless to say.....J8????? You bloody sick donkey pig idiot sdgkhSDlkghSK:dgbvSDvnSDkgHDS>GKNDSgn