25NL: Garbage A raised pf, now donked into

[C4LL4W4Y]

One of my leaks is dealing w/ donkbets. No reads on this guy. Do we call, raise, or fold? If we had reads, against what type of player would you call, raise, or fold?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$0.10/$0.25 Blinds
5 Players
LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

SB: $14.10
BB: $25
UTG: $35.60
<font color="black">Hero (CO): $28.15</font>
BTN: $22

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $0.90, BB folds

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($2.25) J/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $2.25</font>

[Waingro]

I usually call flop, fold turn, but I am really open for better lines.

[BevillTheDevil]

if he donk bets weaker id raise but him bettin pot id call and re-ev turn.

[Keys Myaths]

[ QUOTE ]
if he donk bets weaker id raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising is spew. What will he call the raise with that we'll beat?

[BevillTheDevil]

ok our hand isnt really too good, the board is drawy...so if he bets weak and we just call seems to me that we are almost givin him a free card. Weak donk bets IMO are usually draws or weaker hands and if we raise i dont mind takin it down on the flop. If this guy bets .25-$1 i just dont like a call on such drawy boards.

[RMLewis]

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if he donk bets weaker id raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising is spew. What will he call the raise with that we'll beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising isn't necessarily a spew (if there was a weaker donk bet).. you get fold equity from stronger aces, nothin like AJ-AK, but you can definitely get A10 or lower to either fold right there on the flop, or check/fold on the turn

[Triggerle]

I definitely raise weaker donk-bets. If you just call many villians will think you missed and start bluffing on the turn. With a weak ace I don't want to call big turn bets even if they are often bluffs.

[trixter23]

fold pre flop

[Triggerle]

[ QUOTE ]
fold pre flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Bad advice.

[bozzer]

I call this pot sized donk bet in position and see what develops on the turn.

raising builds the pot with a marginal hand, folding is weak. don't worry about the flush draw: you aren't going to pay him off.

[trixter23]

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fold pre flop

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Bad advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

No this isnt bad advice. You cant be opening with such weak unsuited aces at these levels. It's just not profitable in the long run. This is exactly the reason. You get yourself into tough spots like these. Higher in stakes yes, but i dont agree with your assesment here.

[Triggerle]

It was bad advice because it provided nothing of value.

OP is aware of the nature of his hand (read the thread title) and has his reasons for raising.

Would you have given some insight into why you think he shouldn't raise this we could have discussed it.

[21SuicideKing21]

Raising PF w A6o is not a good hand esp when your UTG+1. I call the flop and re evaluate turn and see what he does. If he does that same sort of bet on turn you fold, if he slows down I put him on a big draw and then bet. Back to the PF raise, I don't mind it all that much since you did raise and depending on your table image and how the table is playing, but I wouldn't fall in love with doing that.

[shoxbb6]

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fold pre flop

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Bad advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

No this isnt bad advice. You cant be opening with such weak unsuited aces at these levels. It's just not profitable in the long run. This is exactly the reason. You get yourself into tough spots like these. Higher in stakes yes, but i dont agree with your assesment here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Raising pf here, especially from the cutoff is fine, even more so if the blinds are tight.

[C4LL4W4Y]

[ QUOTE ]
It was bad advice because it provided nothing of value.

OP is aware of the nature of his hand (read the thread title) and has his reasons for raising.

Would you have given some insight into why you think he shouldn't raise this we could have discussed it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for making the exact response I wanted to write.

[Waingro]

This thread got derailed fast. Raising this pf is fine.

This particular donk bet, pot sized on a drawy board is in my experience one of the following:

1. Villain is betting for value and has A6o crushed and isn´t planning to fold anywhere in the hand.
2. Villain has a marginal made hand; a jack, weak ace, QQ, KK etc. He is betting for information and instafolds to a raise.
3. Villain has a good draw, 12+ outs.

If villain donks turn for the same amount, his range is more weighted towards 2 and 3.

My range for villain might be off, but I can´t see how a raise on the flop is good vs that range. If villain bets 1/3 pot or whatever it is obviously a completely different spot.

[sebbb]

*grunch*

without reads I would just fold here
sometimes I also call and reeavaluate on the turn.

I'd say he either has a better ace (or better), or is semi-bluffing a flush draw. Not much you can do here.

[trixter23]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising PF w A6o is not a good hand esp when your UTG+1. I call the flop and re evaluate turn and see what he does. If he does that same sort of bet on turn you fold, if he slows down I put him on a big draw and then bet. Back to the PF raise, I don't mind it all that much since you did raise and depending on your table image and how the table is playing, but I wouldn't fall in love with doing that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. Table image was never brought to attention or the image of the blinds for that fact.

As for the hand, I wouldnt want to be building a huge pot at this juncture. I agree with SK to call flop, and re-eval turn and fold to a stronger bet.

[sebbb]

well concerning the raise preflop, first he is on the CO which is not equivalent to "UTG+1 with 6 players". Also most of the time by raising here most of the time you will either steal the blinds or win the pot with a c-bet. But it is true that it depends on the opponent.

[spacetime]

Raising that size bet on the flop, w/o reads, is a spew IMO.