50 Nl; 75s Resteal attempt goes to river

[Lego05]

Villian is 55.17/20.69/1.03 over 58 hands
His attempt to steal blinds was 36.36%

How does this line look to you.
Should I check-fold that flop with 2 broadways or is that just too weak?

(Fold if he bets this river obv.)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($75.05)
Hero ($48.75)
BB ($117.80)
UTG ($48.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $5.

Flop: ($14.50) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $9</font>, Button calls $9.

Turn: ($32.50) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $13</font>, Hero calls $13.

River: ($58.50) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button ...

[mrw8419]

I really don't like a resteal OOP against a 55/20 the problem is that he never folds preflop even to a reraise. I much rather resteal against a 25/20 or at least do it while in position.

As for the hand if you've seen villain calling flop bets often then I would open shove turn it makes it look like you are protecting a big hand and your equity isn't too bad as his range is probably 50/50 draws, and made hands.

[barryc83]

Dont 3bet this idiot light. Fold your SB. After pf I guess its standard if you c/f river.

[Lego05]

Why not 3 bet light? He's raising a ton in this spot and just cause he has high VPiP and high PFR doesn't mean he's calling a ton of 3bets.

[mrw8419]

His high VPIP does mean he's entering a lot of pots unless you've seen him folding to a lot of 3 bets. He got a 50 VPIP by seeing 50% of the flops, you want to 3 bet someone light who has the capability to fold pf.

[Lego05]

That's what I'm saying though. He's entering a lot of pots and he's entering a lot of pots for a raise especially in steal situations so he could easily have junk here. And I don't think too many people call a 3bet with junk.

[PoliticalRefugee]

If you think he's gonna try and steal why not check raise the flop? Then he's either gonna give it up or if he calls/pushes you have too.

If he's raising the button light surely a lot of Jx and Kx are in his range and that has you crushed on the flop.

[barryc83]

[ QUOTE ]
That's what I'm saying though. He's entering a lot of pots and he's entering a lot of pots for a raise especially in steal situations so he could easily have junk here. And I don't think too many people call a 3bet with junk.

[/ QUOTE ]

IME these guys do call 3bets w/ junk and the way to beat them is to 3bet with the goods. This type of stuff is complete spew against droolers like this IMO.

[Waingro]

[ QUOTE ]
That's what I'm saying though. He's entering a lot of pots and he's entering a lot of pots for a raise especially in steal situations so he could easily have junk here. And I don't think too many people call a 3bet with junk.

[/ QUOTE ]
But he isn´t folding downer hands like KJo to a 3bet like a semiTAG would. That is not junk to him. A pretty big part of his range is broadways that he isn´t folding.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's what I'm saying though. He's entering a lot of pots and he's entering a lot of pots for a raise especially in steal situations so he could easily have junk here. And I don't think too many people call a 3bet with junk.

[/ QUOTE ]



[/ QUOTE ]


Perhaps but it also includes a buncha stuff that he probably is folding. Plus a lot of them are probably folding missed broadway cards on flop 90%+ of the time. (Can check fold to c-bet stat for individual players.)

That's why the question I really asked was about flop. 2 broadways so maybe it's just a bad flop and I shouldn't try to c-bet. Perhaps I should just c-bet ragged flops, 1 broadways flops and things like that.

[spyderracing]

Ummm fold this preflop

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
Ummm fold this preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm why do you say that.

[EMc]

KISS

Keep it simple stupid.

Against this villain just valuebet the [censored] outta him with hands that dominate.

As played,

meh. I probably play it the same, thinking I will stack him on a club river or 7, check calling a 5,

[mrw8419]

[ QUOTE ]
That's what I'm saying though. He's entering a lot of pots and he's entering a lot of pots for a raise especially in steal situations so he could easily have junk here. And I don't think too many people call a 3bet with junk.

[/ QUOTE ]

No not too many people call 3 bets with junk, but not too many people are 50/20. Don't get into fancy play syndrome with him, play position, and then value town him for his stack.

[Jaqrabbit]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ummm fold this preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm why do you say that.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm not sure why he said it, but I would say it because:

1) You are out of position.
2) You are facing a raise from someone who is IN position.
3) You have a weak hand. (middle, suited, almost-connectors may be worth a limp, but not a 3-bet)

Even if you think his raise is a steal, you aren't likely to show down the best hand. And unless you've seen the guy fold to a lot of 3-bets before, I certainly wouldn't try to push him out of the pot here.

The most aggressive thing I might do here is call his pre-flop bet, and see how the flop hits. If it put you two to a straight or two to a flush, I could see hanging with this, but you've got bottom pair, and a back door flush draw. That does not warrant a bet against a loose player. And if you DO decide to c-bet this (keeping in mind that it's a near total bluff at this point), I think you have to second barrel it. The check on the turn looks weak, and if there was a chance he was going to fold it, there isn't now.

So...
PF: fold, maybe call
flop: check, call a low bet, fold to a big one
turn: small-ish blocking bet, to protect the flush draw you picked up.
river: check, fold to anything more than a token bet. Your 77 is probably no good, and you can't push him off here.

[Lego05]

Jaqrabbit you have just a ton of terrible advice in your post in my opinion whether or not folding here is actually correct.

"1) You are out of position.
2) You are facing a raise from someone who is IN position.
3) You have a weak hand. (middle, suited, almost-connectors may be worth a limp, but not a 3-bet)"

Being in position is important but I'm not always going to fold OOP to someone who is raising in position very wide.

Do not limp suited connectors especially in position. I am raising suited connectors on the button and CO 100%.


"The most aggressive thing I might do here is call his pre-flop bet, and see how the flop hits."

IMO absolutely terrible. Much worse than 3 betting.


As for after the flop I think you may be right. That board texture may not be any good for a c-bet. I think I played the turn fine though.

[EMc]

Lego,

He is right WRT to folding PF and his reasons. You are making things too complicated.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
Lego,

He is right WRT to folding PF and his reasons. You are making things too complicated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe in this specific example, but as general guielines I think he is off. WOuldn't you at least agree this could be good against diff. villians?

And wouldn't you saycalling here is pretty bad? I would think that it is.

[Jaqrabbit]

[ QUOTE ]

"1) You are out of position.
2) You are facing a raise from someone who is IN position.
3) You have a weak hand. (middle, suited, almost-connectors may be worth a limp, but not a 3-bet)"

Being in position is important but I'm not always going to fold OOP to someone who is raising in position very wide.

[/ QUOTE ]I didn't suggest you should. I merely mentioned it as a factor that would color my decision.

[ QUOTE ]
Do not limp suited connectors especially in position. I am raising suited connectors on the button and CO 100%.

[/ QUOTE ]Sure thing, but you're on neither the button nor the CO, and these DON'T (quite) connect. And this is a RE-raise, not a raise.

[ QUOTE ]
"The most aggressive thing I might do here is call his pre-flop bet, and see how the flop hits."

IMO absolutely terrible. Much worse than 3 betting.

[/ QUOTE ]I disagree. IF I call this (and it's a big IF), I do so with the intent to fold if I don't hit the flop pretty hard. This is simply not a hand I'm willing to throw down with.

[ QUOTE ]
And wouldn't you saycalling here is pretty bad? I would think that it is.

[/ QUOTE ] I agree it's bad. That's why I said I might do it, not I would do it. If I felt like taking a shot, I would admit to myself that I was gambling and try to minimize my investment in a weak hand. Then if the flop gives me a strong hand or strong draw, I'd do everything I could to stack the guy - but I don't start that till I feel I have a reasonable shot.

[ QUOTE ]
As for after the flop I think you may be right. That board texture may not be any good for a c-bet. I think I played the turn fine though.

[/ QUOTE ]The turn play is absolutely fine if you plan to check/fold the river, IMO. But I suspect you'd have gotten past the turn cheaper with the blocking bet, and if you want to draw to that flush, that's the way to go. On the other hand, a reasonably observant player is going to read that as exactly what you're doing, so maybe it's not so hot. I don't feel particularly strongly about the turn, other than to say you shouldn't have stayed in that long.