NL25 - Akward KK given pf and villain

[Everlong]

We are pretty deep. Villain is the only solid player at the table - wouldn't be surprised if he is 2P2.

Honestly don't know where I am at here.
I think he would have 4-bet AA or shoved it...so that leaves me QQ,JJ and AQ? Let's diregard any 8.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

<font color="black">Hero (SB): $51.50</font>
BB: $24.90
UTG: $7.10
<font color="black">MP: $43.55</font>
CO: $47.20
BTN: $23.80

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Kh.png http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Ks.png (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $0.75</font>, CO calls $0.75, BTN folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3.20</font>, BB folds, MP calls $2.45, CO folds

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($7.40) http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/8c.png http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/8d.png http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Qd.png (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $7.40</font>, MP calls $7.40

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($22.20) http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Jc.png (2 Players)
Hero ?

[TheRenaissance]

[ QUOTE ]
We are pretty deep[...]Let's diregard any 8.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure?
I am 2p2 and I could have an 8 here.

[mrw8419]

I'd also add big diamonds to that range. Personally I like another lead on the turn for 15.

[Lego05]

Ok I can't see the board. I just have big black squares where card values should be.

[Everlong]

My cards KhKs

Flop 8c8dQd
Turn Jc

[Quester]

I'm firing again, maybe $15 and folding to a raise. I probably check/call a safe river. He definitely could have an 8, I'm not sure why you're ruling that out (TAGs still raise mid SCs from MP so this could be 87s or 98s).

[C4LL4W4Y]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok I can't see the board. I just have big black squares where card values should be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm firing again, maybe $15 and folding to a raise. I probably check/call a safe river. He definitely could have an 8, I'm not sure why you're ruling that out (TAGs still raise mid SCs from MP so this could be 87s or 98s).

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't make sense to bet/fold the turn, but check/call the river.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm firing again, maybe $15 and folding to a raise. I probably check/call a safe river. He definitely could have an 8, I'm not sure why you're ruling that out (TAGs still raise mid SCs from MP so this could be 87s or 98s).

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't make sense to bet/fold the turn, but check/call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]


Why not? He could be calling us with AQ and then value betting it when we check river. Or calling us with a flush draw and bluffing the river when he misses can't he.


Anyway I don't want to let him draw on the turn but I don't want to have to put in money on 2 more streets. So I'd ratehr bet/fold turn then chekc river and either call or fold depending on his bet size. Does that not look good?

[Isura]

He isn't going to bluff for like 18 into a 50+ pot on the river.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]

Anyway I don't want to let him draw on the turn but I don't want to have to put in money on 2 more streets. So I'd ratehr bet/fold turn then chekc river and either call or fold depending on his bet size. Does that not look good?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, that is bad. Stack sizes are terrible to bet/fold the turn. You are better of check/folding or check/raising AI since draws are not a big part of his range.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
He isn't going to bluff for like 18 into a 50+ pot on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen it before.



What line are you taking here?

[yellowbluebus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok I can't see the board. I just have big black squares where card values should be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too.

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Are you using Internet Explorer by any chance? If so, then you may have a problem viewing PNG graphics if you are using and older version of IE.

[Isura]

No, I had the same problem with firefox too. Must be bandwidth problems, since the images disappear from time to time

[RMLewis]

To be honest, i think his flat call on the flop is worse than if he pushed. If villain is the only solid player at the table, like you said, it wouldnt be much of a mystery to him that you're holding AA/KK.

Diamonds are in his range, but i do not think they are likely. Also, i would not rule out the 8 for reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. You're in a tough spot because if you check the turn, he'll bet into you, and you would not have gained any info on his hand...

I think the best course of action is to make a ~ $15 bet and fold to a raise. If he calls, I shove any non-diamond non-queen, non-ace river

I think its less than likely that villain would float you all the way to the river. Solid players like to protect their hands... Given the aggression you showed, and the money you invested, he has no reason to believe you'd fold for what would basically be a min-raise... but you're smart, so you will.

[badbill7]

If you ruled out AA KK preflop then i definately like the 15 bet. I think this guy probably has AQ. My last question is why do you think this guy is solid, do you have any numbers on him or is this thru observation. IF so, how long have you been observing him?

[Quester]

[ QUOTE ]
No, that is bad. Stack sizes are terrible to bet/fold the turn. You are better of check/folding or check/raising AI since draws are not a big part of his range.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, but I'm interested to hear what you think his range is given his image, our image, and the action.

[TheFoxNL]

even tho its a long shot 8s could also be in his range
and Qs aswell his flat call merely looks like a slow play IMO

i would put in his range
AQ QQ 88 and AA because of the pot size bet he's not worried about you having 8s but will put you on either Qs or a bluf

other cards then AQ QQ 88 AA i wouldnt see why he just flat calls even AQ is just merely in there
i dont see what he flatt calls with except a Flush draw that you can beat

bet on the turn and fold to a raise if he calls check/fold
the river

[Everlong]

[ QUOTE ]
If you ruled out AA KK preflop then i definately like the 15 bet. I think this guy probably has AQ. My last question is why do you think this guy is solid, do you have any numbers on him or is this thru observation. IF so, how long have you been observing him?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he might have called the pf re-raise with any LOW-MID pp for set v ans also qq JJ but I think he'd fold aq . so why isn't he folding the flop?

I c/f turn and am OK with it but want to see general opp.

(read is based on stats + observing him for close to an hour...nor watertight but good enough)...

[bozzer]

villain id?

[munkey]

I check turn -with intention of check-folding or c/r AI partly based on his betsizing - turn is basically awkward with pot 22 and 30ish behind OOP.

I'm not sure what range to put him on - but his range that bets decently on the turn problem narrows alot and we now lose to jj/QQ so I might lean to folding.

{AQ, AA-JJ, 88,..TT, A8s less so} I think his range is pretty tight if he plays cautiously 2 buyins deep and it's a 3bet pot.