nl10$ terrible misplay..

[Tamynese]

I wanted to check raise the turn but it didn't work out. Should I have played more aggressively on the flop?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($5.25)
MP1 ($11.90)
MP2 ($6.70)
CO ($1.70)
Button ($9.60)
SB ($10.80)
BB ($5.55)
Hero ($23.80)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/spade.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/club.gif.
Hero calls $0.10, 4 folds</font>, Button calls $0.10, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.40) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/spade.gif (4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, [color=#CC3333]Button bets $0.3</font>, SB calls $0.30, BB folds, Hero calls $0.30.

Turn: ($1.30) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/heart.gif (3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($1.30) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/diamond.gif (3 players)</font>
SB bets $1.3</font>, Hero calls $1.30, Button folds.

Final Pot: $3.90

[Archon_Wing]

Yea, you really need to get money into this pot. Raise preflop, and bet out or check raise the flop. With so many people in the flop c/r is probably better. And definitely bet out the turn.

[Tamynese]

Raise preflop utg with sixes? That's terrible...

[Dunkman]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop utg with sixes? That's terrible...

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

[Colm]

the unl faq seems to advoctate raising from every position with all pocket pairs.

i just bet the flop, unless i am very certain the button will bet, but he didn't raise pf and there are a lot of hands that call so i just bet and bet at least 2/3 pot on turn, you need to bet to build the pot.

as played i just call river as well, but there are plenty of hands that you beat that could call at this level, so i don't know how to evaluate the risk of the lone j and raising.

[Dunkman]

PF is a raise, bet the flop, bet the turn, be aggressive, they'll call with crap I promise.

[BuddyQ]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop utg with sixes? That's terrible...

[/ QUOTE ]

Shorthanded, UTG, Open-Raise 66 - standard

[Tamynese]

Small pocket pairs should be played as cheap as possible. Raising here diminishes their value because in case of a pot sized reraise, I would be forced to fold given the stack sizes.

[Tamynese]

It was a full table...

[Dunkman]

You asked us for our opinions and we gave them to you. If you don't like them, fine, you can play however you want. It is the damn near unanimous opinion of this forum that you should raise here. I know it would be better if everyone were 100+ BBs deep, but it's still a sound play. People have the tendency at this level to call PF raises with all kinds of garbage. Much more likely than a reraise is 3 callers, then when you flop a set you're almost guaranteed some substantial action from someone who hit something like top pair. If there's several maniacs at the table who raise almost every hand, then I like limp/call better. Most general rules in poker are subject to change depending on specific tables and opponents. What you want here is someone to put in normal raise and as many callers as possible. If the pot is 3 BBs going to the flop it's just about impossible to stack someone without doing things that make even the worst players suspicious.

[Tamynese]

[ QUOTE ]
I wanted to check raise the turn but it didn't work out. Should I have played more aggressively on the flop?


[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I asked advice on...Nothing to do with preflop action.

[bluef0x]

You have to bet that flop. There's only one person behind you and he can easily check it. You are losing way too much value. You want to build the pot as much as possible. The way it played, you should have raised when it got back to you on the flop and bet the turn.

[Crimsonjade]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wanted to check raise the turn but it didn't work out. Should I have played more aggressively on the flop?


[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I asked advice on...Nothing to do with preflop action.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the point is that this hand is much easier to play if you had raised it pre-flop. You can just bet it out for value starting from the flop rather than get fancy with a check-raise on the turn with a small pot.

[jk1986]

Did anyone actually read the hand history???
He limps UTG and it is full ring, I would play the same pre. I'd normally lead this flop, if I checked like you did, I would def check raise. Its 3 way and you want to build this pot. Plus you want QJ to put money in now. Bet the turn, although you'll find hands like this easier to play if you just get more aggressive. Most ppl are 10nl are stations, you've gotta make them put their money in with ur set, not check call down.

[RuFFNeXX]

I really don't understand the PF advice you guys are giving here. Consider that hero is UTG at an 8-handed table, basically a full table, with 7 players yet to act. If hero raises and is called by at least 2 people, hero better be sure that no card higher than a 6 hit the board otherwise hero is likely throwing away the hand. I don't have Poker stove on my new pc so I can't run the numbers. But 8 of the 13 ranked cards beat a 6 so it doesn't take much for a caller to make a higher pair. Basically what I'm saying is that I would imagine that a pair of 6 be played only for set value at a full ring table. My math may be off but the chances of hitting the set is a little under 10% and might even be closer to 8%. That means somewhere around 90% of the times you are not hitting your set. That's a high failure rate in my opinion. So why spew chips when you can see a cheap flop? However, at 6-max I definitely PFR with a pair of 6.

Someone please explain the flaw in my logic.

[Archon_Wing]

[ QUOTE ]
Did anyone actually read the hand history???

[/ QUOTE ]

Speaking of that, why the heck does it only show 5 people acting?

[Bowlboy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did anyone actually read the hand history???

[/ QUOTE ]

Speaking of that, why the heck does it only show 5 people acting?

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6, 6.
Hero calls $0.10, 4 folds, Button calls $0.10, SB completes, BB checks.

[Archon_Wing]

So it means, 4 of them folded? ZZzzzz. Yea, I would limp in full ring too I suppose. Rest of my post still stands.

[Bowlboy]

[ QUOTE ]
So it means, 4 of them folded? ZZzzzz. Yea, I would limp in full ring too I suppose. Rest of my post still stands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel limping here is probably best. Playing for set value is good imo cuz sets play well multiway which it's likely to be, and if somebody raises behind you after a couple other limpers you really dont mind cuz you stand a good chance of stacking somebody when you hit.

I think about PP's at 6max UTG at really loose tables where you raise PF, the flop is 4 way, and cbets get zero respect. Wouldnt those conditions warrant open limping?
I'm not trying to go against the grain here. I prefer to open raise and I'm making money off low PP's from cbetting alone never mind hitting sets, but some sessions, some tables it just doesnt feel right to bother raising, especially when you can stack a donk in an un raised pot anyway.

[Archon_Wing]

[ QUOTE ]


I think about PP's at 6max UTG at really loose tables where you raise PF, the flop is 4 way, and cbets get zero respect. Wouldnt those conditions warrant open limping?
I'm not trying to go against the grain here. I prefer to open raise and I'm making money off low PP's from cbetting alone never mind hitting sets, but some sessions, some tables it just doesnt feel right to bother raising, especially when you can stack a donk in an un raised pot anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, which is why sometimes you can't think of something in terms of "always" and "never" But in general, usually it's much easier to stack people in a raised pot as your flop bet is larger. But if they're bad enough that you can like open shove the flop and they'll still call, then it's reasonable to limp. This is especially true at tables where people don't raise pf.

[elmopoker]

Raise pocket pairs UTG. They have great reverse implied odds. As played you need to be aggressive and atleast bet the turn. People are fishy, they will call.

[Suaimhnea]

Unless the BB is going to make a PSB back at you, you definitely have set value with 66 and should therefore open UTG.

[Suaimhnea]

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't understand the PF advice you guys are giving here. Consider that hero is UTG at an 8-handed table, basically a full table, with 7 players yet to act. If hero raises and is called by at least 2 people, hero better be sure that no card higher than a 6 hit the board otherwise hero is likely throwing away the hand. I don't have Poker stove on my new pc so I can't run the numbers. But 8 of the 13 ranked cards beat a 6 so it doesn't take much for a caller to make a higher pair. Basically what I'm saying is that I would imagine that a pair of 6 be played only for set value at a full ring table. My math may be off but the chances of hitting the set is a little under 10% and might even be closer to 8%. That means somewhere around 90% of the times you are not hitting your set. That's a high failure rate in my opinion. So why spew chips when you can see a cheap flop? However, at 6-max I definitely PFR with a pair of 6.

Someone please explain the flaw in my logic.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're not looking for a flop texture of something like 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif or 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. We're looking to build a pot so that when we hit those kind of K 6 Q or 6 A J we're going to break/get considerable value from now inferior hands like AJs+.

I think playing small pairs this way make it pretty straightforward in a full ring game: if you don't hit favorable flop texture you can dump your hand without much thought.

[KLJ]

raising pf is silly. easy easy easy flop lead.

[Colm]

i didn't notice this was full ring, i limp here full ring.