I'm getting OWNED

[Triple Optics]

Yeah so I'm -5.03 ptbb/100 over 5,298 hands playing $10 NL 6-max on full tilt. (actually its worse than that, I dropped like 4 buy-ins before I started a new database)

These are a few hands from my last session. Terrible variance or terrible play?

Hand 1
------------------
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $5.25
CO: $4.90
Button: $13.10
SB: $21.45
Hero: $9.65

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif
UTG calls, CO (poster) checks, Button folds, SB calls, Hero (poster) checks.

Flop: 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($0.4, 4 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $0.3</font>, UTG folds, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($1.3, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $1</font>, CO calls, SB folds.

River: J/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($3.3, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $1.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises all-in $3.5</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $10.3

Hand 2
---------------------
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $3.60
CO: $16.15
Button: $19.15
SB: $0
Hero: $15.75

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG calls, CO folds, Button calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $0.5</font>, UTG calls, Button calls.

Flop: K/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif ($1.55, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $1</font>, UTG calls, Button calls.

Turn: 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($4.55, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $3</font>, UTG folds, Button calls.

River: 6/images/graemlins/club.gif ($10.55, 3 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $4</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $4 returned to Button.

Results:
Final pot: $10.55


Hand 3
--------------
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
Hero: $10.65
CO: $9.85
Button: $7.60
SB: $7.60
BB: $41.95

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $0.4</font>, 2 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: K/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($0.9, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $0.85</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $3</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises all-in $7.2</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 2/images/graemlins/club.gif ($15.3, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $15.3)


River: 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($15.3, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $15.3)


Results:
Final pot: $15.3


Hand 4
---------------------
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $5.55
UTG+1: $9.90
Hero: $10.75
Button: $10.85
SB: $3.75
BB: $11.90

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $0.6</font>, 3 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($1.35, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $1.35</font>, Hero calls.
Turn: J/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($4.05, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG is all-in $3.6</font>, Hero TILT calls.

River: 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($11.25, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $11.25)


Results:
Final pot: $11.25

[TheRenaissance]

All look fine except 4 - shove that flop.

[jordiepop]

[ QUOTE ]
All look fine except 4 - shove that flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

[TheDivineRod]

all fine except 2 and 4. Shove the flop on 4. Bet more on the turn for 2 to get maximum value from drawing hands when they miss.

[Dunkman]

1) I don't like the river, although I'm not sure what I'd do about it. I think I probably end up calling out of spite, but I really don't know what he could raise with that you beat.

2) I'm usually going for a c/c here with the intention of leading out on a non c turn. edit: I'd raise more pf, probably to at least .75 to compensate for our poor position and deep stacks.

3) played fine...by the time you discovered you were beat you had odds to call even if you knew you had to fill up to win

4) shove the flop

I'm nitpicking at a lot of this stuff...your play in these hands certainly isn't enough to make you a losing player at 10nl. Look at your numbers...I'd be willing to bet most of the problem is you're getting killed oop. Another problem is probably playing too many low implied odds hands (A rag is the worst, but those types of hands.) Running at that rate, over that sample size, in 10nl isn't variance I'm sorry to say. That's ok though, keep posting hands and you'll be winning in no time at all.

[thac]

I love how you just show setups, coolers and dumb hands.. post the retarded hands where you shove with 9 high on the turn with no pair no draw, or where you call down with second pair because you think he's bluffing.

Don't lie, I know they're there. That's why you're losing.

[guitarizt]

Those hands don't look that bad, plus you've got some really good advice here.

[Triple Optics]

[ QUOTE ]
I love how you just show setups, coolers and dumb hands.. post the retarded hands where you shove with 9 high on the turn with no pair no draw, or where you call down with second pair because you think he's bluffing.

Don't lie, I know they're there. That's why you're losing.

[/ QUOTE ]


Believe it or not, these are the most interesting hands I could pull from my session.

The other hands that I lost were all 2-6 outers where I was a ridiculous favorite.

I raise alot in position... and make alot of c-bets... I usually hit variance like this when there is a combination of suckouts, close plays, and unsuccessful flop bluffs.

Honestly I'm not too worried about a 5k sample size because variance can be ridiculous playing micro stakes 6-max. I've ran nicely over 50K+ hands playing this game before.

I love hearing this though because these were the only hands that I even slightly questioned how I played them. This and the prior responses pretty much reaffirm to me that it's variance.

[Wex Montana]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah so I'm -5.03 ptbb/100 over 5,298 hands playing $10 NL 6-max on full tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly the same here

I'm sure it's variance though, because the players act so extremely loose there. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[avfletch]

[ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, these are the most interesting hands I could pull from my session.

Honestly I'm not too worried about a 5k sample size because variance can be ridiculous playing micro stakes 6-max. I've ran nicely over 50K+ hands playing this game before.

I love hearing this though because these were the only hands that I even slightly questioned how I played them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then frankly you're not looking hard enough. The first step to becoming good at poker is accepting that you suck.

It's all too easy to write a losing stretch off to variance (which it may well be, don't get me wrong) but there'll still be a *ton* of errors in there, which you need to find and get out of your game.

[ShipitFMA]

Its already but seen but 2 i would check turn for pot control
4 shove flop...
the others are good

[thac]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, these are the most interesting hands I could pull from my session.

Honestly I'm not too worried about a 5k sample size because variance can be ridiculous playing micro stakes 6-max. I've ran nicely over 50K+ hands playing this game before.

I love hearing this though because these were the only hands that I even slightly questioned how I played them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then frankly you're not looking hard enough. The first step to becoming good at poker is accepting that you suck.

It's all too easy to write a losing stretch off to variance (which it may well be, don't get me wrong) but there'll still be a *ton* of errors in there, which you need to find and get out of your game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for backing me up - if you can only find FOUR hands where you played a big pot/lost a big pot/"thought the hand was interesting".. you're mentally blocking all the bad river calls you're making, all the bad bluffs you're making, and all the spewy c-bets into 2-3 people on bad boards.

Stop thinking it's all variance because if you lost 4 buyins in these variance filled hands and you're losing at 5bb/100 in 5k hands, that means you either did NOT win a stack at all and you got stacked one other time -- or, more likely, you won quite a few stacks (7-10) but you ended up donking off a lot more in other pots.

[Slappias]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love how you just show setups, coolers and dumb hands.. post the retarded hands where you shove with 9 high on the turn with no pair no draw, or where you call down with second pair because you think he's bluffing.

Don't lie, I know they're there. That's why you're losing.

[/ QUOTE ]


Believe it or not, these are the most interesting hands I could pull from my session.

The other hands that I lost were all 2-6 outers where I was a ridiculous favorite.

I raise alot in position... and make alot of c-bets... I usually hit variance like this when there is a combination of suckouts, close plays, and unsuccessful flop bluffs.

Honestly I'm not too worried about a 5k sample size because variance can be ridiculous playing micro stakes 6-max. I've ran nicely over 50K+ hands playing this game before.

I love hearing this though because these were the only hands that I even slightly questioned how I played them. This and the prior responses pretty much reaffirm to me that it's variance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am having the exact same problem i almost always go in with the best hand or something like this. This must be variance

[wildzer0]

There are hands you may think are standard that you are spewing on. Maybe you're making fancy plays that aren't working, bad call downs, whatever. If you think these are the most interesting hand over 5k hands, and you're losing a lot, you're "standard" lines are probably way off. Post some of them and you will probably find some big leaks. One of the biggest fixes in my game was posting hands I thought were standard and finding out I was spewing in some very common spots.

[losingdonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, these are the most interesting hands I could pull from my session.

Honestly I'm not too worried about a 5k sample size because variance can be ridiculous playing micro stakes 6-max. I've ran nicely over 50K+ hands playing this game before.

I love hearing this though because these were the only hands that I even slightly questioned how I played them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then frankly you're not looking hard enough. The first step to becoming good at poker is accepting that you suck.

It's all too easy to write a losing stretch off to variance (which it may well be, don't get me wrong) but there'll still be a *ton* of errors in there, which you need to find and get out of your game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for backing me up - if you can only find FOUR hands where you played a big pot/lost a big pot/"thought the hand was interesting".. you're mentally blocking all the bad river calls you're making, all the bad bluffs you're making, and all the spewy c-bets into 2-3 people on bad boards.

Stop thinking it's all variance because if you lost 4 buyins in these variance filled hands and you're losing at 5bb/100 in 5k hands, that means you either did NOT win a stack at all and you got stacked one other time -- or, more likely, you won quite a few stacks (7-10) but you ended up donking off a lot more in other pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

had those problems for faaaarr too long