50NL; JJ 3bets pre; c-bet gets called; turn set on dangerous board

[Lego05]

Villian is 13.65/8.12/2.19 over 271 hands

Do you do anything differently pre-flop through the turn?
What range would you be putting him on here at the river?
Are you calling or folding the river?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($68)
Button ($92.85)
SB ($92.05)
BB ($50)
UTG ($49.25)
MP ($77.20)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls $5.

Flop: ($14.75) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $10</font>, UTG calls $10.

Turn: ($34.75) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: ($34.75) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $32.25 (All-In)</font>, Hero ???

[mrw8419]

I'm always 3 betting JJ even against those pf stats. I check flop though you are either way ahead and villian has a two outer, or way behind and drawing nearly dead. Once you hit a set on the turn the money goes in the pot.

[WarhammerIIC]

3-bet preflop is fine. I am c-betting that flop exactly 0% of the time. After the turn I'm committed. Maybe they have AT. Oh well.

[Isura]

Calling preflop is fine against those stats. You have position and can wait for a safe flop (no A or K) before putting too much money in. You can also get his c-bet this way and don't let him fold hands like AQ-AJ. But reraising is fine too. Especially if he raises just pocket pairs in EP, you can force him to pay to out flop you.

Betting the flop serves no purpose except for avoiding being bluffed off the pot. The board is likely to have hit him, or you are way ahead of his smaller pair. Flop bet is purely a bluff, and you are almost never winning if he calls it. Check the flop and give up. River is an easy call.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]


Betting the flop serves no purpose except for avoiding being bluffed off the pot. The board is likely to have hit him, or you are way ahead of his smaller pair. Flop bet is purely a bluff, and you are almost never winning if he calls it. Check the flop and give up. River is an easy call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok I agree except for the rive ris an easy call part. What range are you putting him on. If he calls the flop I am almost never winning and he did call the flop. Does that 3rd J change that much?

He raised UTG and called a 3 bet then called the flop:
QQ,KK,AA,AK,33(maybe, bad call pre)

He checks turn (going for check-raise?) and pushes river:
QQ,KK,33(maybe),AT(doubtful), AA (is he pushing with AA? maybe. this is what I really thought...either he has AA or he's beating me), AK (is he pushing with AK, I don't really think so)

Do those ranges look reasonable to you or am I off?

And I'm at work so I can't stove it but with those ranges is it really a very easy call?



Edit: Also you would never bet the flop here just to avoid being bluffed off by a small pair or something?

[WarhammerIIC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Betting the flop serves no purpose except for avoiding being bluffed off the pot. The board is likely to have hit him, or you are way ahead of his smaller pair. Flop bet is purely a bluff, and you are almost never winning if he calls it. Check the flop and give up. River is an easy call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok I agree except for the rive ris an easy call part. What range are you putting him on. If he calls the flop I am almost never winning and he did call the flop. Does that 3rd J change that much?

He raised UTG and called a 3 bet then called the flop:
QQ,KK,AA,AK,33(maybe, bad call pre)

He checks turn (going for check-raise?) and pushes river:
QQ,KK,33(maybe),AT(doubtful), AA (is he pushing with AA? maybe. this is what I really thought...either he has AA or he's beating me), AK (is he pushing with AK, I don't really think so)

Do those ranges look reasonable to you or am I off?

And I'm at work so I can't stove it but with those ranges is it really a very easy call?



Edit: Also you would never bet the flop here just to avoid being bluffed off by a small pair or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think someone with a set of Qs or Ks is going to check that turn and let a club and/or A/T fall on the river? He has pretty decent stats, so I doubt it. He has to figure that board hit you, and he'd better make some money now before the river ruins it.

AT is also unlikely, because the preflop raise and flop call don't really make sense with those stats.

If he slowplayed that turn with KK or QQ, then I'd make put him on my buddy list and never sit at a table with them. That's a ballsy play. I think you will see AK, KQ, or 77 most of the time.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Betting the flop serves no purpose except for avoiding being bluffed off the pot. The board is likely to have hit him, or you are way ahead of his smaller pair. Flop bet is purely a bluff, and you are almost never winning if he calls it. Check the flop and give up. River is an easy call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok I agree except for the rive ris an easy call part. What range are you putting him on. If he calls the flop I am almost never winning and he did call the flop. Does that 3rd J change that much?

He raised UTG and called a 3 bet then called the flop:
QQ,KK,AA,AK,33(maybe, bad call pre)

He checks turn (going for check-raise?) and pushes river:
QQ,KK,33(maybe),AT(doubtful), AA (is he pushing with AA? maybe. this is what I really thought...either he has AA or he's beating me), AK (is he pushing with AK, I don't really think so)

Do those ranges look reasonable to you or am I off?

And I'm at work so I can't stove it but with those ranges is it really a very easy call?



Edit: Also you would never bet the flop here just to avoid being bluffed off by a small pair or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

AA/AK/KQ just as likely as KK or QQ. 8% PFR probably doesn't raise 33 utg. You are good way more than 33% here

[Peter Harris]

That is an easy river call, and I think you should be doing something on the turn rather than checking. I'd bet 25.

[nukewell]

gainst a loose villian i dont think c/betting the flop is too bad as long as your image is tight

this villian is a nit , so i am never c/betting here especially since he raised UTG. U can assume his PFR range is VERY tight UTG so i dont think u want to bloat the pot too much although u r in position

as played i would call this river, i think u are ahead at least half the time which are the odds given

i think i would bet the turn but bout 3/4 pot