50NL: AK 3bets and maybe we both brick? Maybe underpair?

[SirFelixCat]

edit: title

Villain here is 40/18/4.1 over 400+ hands. All streets I'd welcome comments.

My comments to follow the hand:

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/))

<font color="black">Hero (SB): $49.50</font>
BB: $30.05
UTG: $33.15
MP: $31.55
CO: $51.75
BTN: $38.75

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt A/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 Players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $1.75</font>, MP calls $1.75, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7.50</font>, BB folds, UTG calls $5.75, MP calls $5.75

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($23) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $5</font>, MP folds, Hero calls $5

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($33) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

<font color="black">River:</font> ($33) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $14.75</font>, UTG ...

Standard 3bet preflop...nothing much there. Now, on the flop, his flop bet screamed either monster or scared to me, so I thought I could gain the upper hand by just calling, which I could do with an overpair, set, etc. and force him to announce his hand on the turn. Also, I could check a blank turn and see how he fires and decide to either c/r here or muck, depending on the strength of his bet...thoughts?

After he checks the turn behind, I try to make it look like a whiffed c/r attempt and fire with nut nopair. Good idea or spew?

[Ikaika]

I'd play the flop exactly the same; AKh never makes such a small bet on this flop.

What bet sizes on the turn would you c/r? If you do c/r I expect you're hoping to pick off 99, TT correct?

[SirFelixCat]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd play the flop exactly the same; AKh never makes such a small bet on this flop.

What bet sizes on the turn would you c/r? If you do c/r I expect you're hoping to pick off 99, TT correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly on picking off those hands. Or maybe AQ possibly...think about it.

That said, if he bets 1/2 pot or less, we go big there. Thoughts?

[KEW]

Stacks are not deep enough..There is no shame in check folding when AK whiffs and this is a dangerous board...If you want to make a play C/R AI villains weak flop bet...

[Ikaika]

That seems like a small bet for AQ on the flop, I'd probably make it half pot if I was villain here.

I really like the idea of the c/r for the turn, but he's short stacked. He has 12 in the pot and 20 behind...if he's betting half pot he has to be ready to get all of his money in the middle. If he had 100bb the c/r is super sexy but here it wouldn't be as goot.

[SirFelixCat]

[ QUOTE ]
That seems like a small bet for AQ on the flop, I'd probably make it half pot if I was villain here.

I really like the idea of the c/r for the turn, but he's short stacked. He has 12 in the pot and 20 behind...if he's betting half pot he has to be ready to get all of his money in the middle. If he had 100bb the c/r is super sexy but here it wouldn't be as goot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Valid point...hence why we post hands like this, no? /images/graemlins/wink.gif
But, since the c/r whiffed, as played...thoughts?

[Ikaika]

His stack size makes this so awkward, if he has AQ he's probably shoving over your bet since he'll only have 6 left if he just calls.

[czGLoRy]

PF: perfect
flop: he bets 1/4 pot into two others. here I put him on a decent but not great made hand (q10?), but some people do this with draws.

turn. You check, he checks behind. looks to me like a mediocre hand, or a draw. He might be dumb enough to check here to let your AKh get a free card, but probably not.
putting him on 10 10/Q10/QK still if he has a made hand, or 10 K with some hearts. (hard to say because hes raising utg, but he might with his stats)

River: lots of people do this at these levels, fire pot sized bets into villain who is IP after draws missed. You fold to raise obviously, but nothing more you can do.
If he had a draw, he folds, if he has a mediocre hand he calls.

[mrw8419]

Don't like river bet as I see very few hands folding for a half pot bet.

[NL Newbie]

Give up on river, you're repping nothing and from the looks of his stats/stack &amp; line he took he's connected a bit and will call you alot.

[munkey]

I did this a few times recently and decided to stop doing it after analysing why.

I'll tell you why I stopped doing this and if I was I would do it on the turn as it is more credible you have a big hand vs this kind of player.

These kinds of players can't fold in 3bet pots very easily- in normal 3bet pots quite a few TAGS can't fold either and I've been guilty of this sometimes too.

That flop is pretty drawy and quite possibly could have hit his broadway cards -something like JT.

Vs these villans I will often not cbet scary flops - I 3bet AKv s these for value on K and mainly Ace high flops where I dominate there Ax crap kicker and stack them before they know all the monies gone in.

So here I call flop bet and see if I hit my str8/a pair.

[poon]

I probly call flop cause he almost prices us in for a 10. I think i give up on this river cause we've represnted a weak hand. if hes thinking he probly puts us on AKhh and might call with TT or 99 because if we had tp/set we would have played much more agressive. If i hit a A or K here on turn or river, i would still soft play and check turn and river.

[corsakh]

I so dont like your flop check after a 3bet OOP.

[Lordy]

They both have a PSB left. That makes everything so awkward.

Unless you're willing to felt any K or A turn, it's a fold. Bluffing river is a waste of money. He's not folding a J.

[poon]

wow I must have missed that we get first shot at the pot, why dont we bet 20 on flop and if called shut down?

[jezmond]

If the guy is crazy enough or has a strong enough hand to call that preflop do you really think he is going to wuss out on the river?

Edit:supposed to be a reponse to the OP not poon.

[Lordy]

[ QUOTE ]
wow I must have missed that we get first shot at the pot, why dont we bet 20 on flop and if called shut down?

[/ QUOTE ]

They both have about 24$ left...

[Chomp]

If we're gonna spend $20 post, I'd rather do it sooner rather than later I think.

A flop bet of even $16 folds 22-TT, AK, Ax, and gets called/raised by QJ, AQ AhXh and maybe TJ, AJ (and I suppose Ax hands are less likely as we have one). So I think a bet folds more of his range than it gets calls and we still have redraws.

At the table I often check this flop too, so after this thread I might look at that again.

[SwingVelvet]

It's a heads up pot and you 3 bet preflop.

I think a continuation bet is in order OOP, specially with 4 live outs.

[Isura]

Fold flop. I may c/r AI if utg makes dumb bets in this spot.

[SirFelixCat]

Very good points here and in hindsight, I should have bet the flop, regardless. Villain ended up mucking on the river, but that doesn't matter. Just looking to work on these spots.

FWIW, the only reason that I checked the flop after 3betting goes back to my post last week about when, after 3betting pre, should we not bet the flop. I misapplied what was discussed there, but live and learn. I'd suggest you guys search for that thread from me from last week. Great discussion in there.

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold flop. I may c/r AI if utg makes dumb bets in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]