50NL: FToP This!

[Chomp]

Villain unknown

What does the FToP say here? To my mind the average 50NL donk without a J folds to a cbet, and folds to a turn raise.

The only way I could see to extract some value was to let him think his <KK has a chance at showdown and so vb the river.

But sheesh this seems so passive.

Oh, and 0evg0 gave out to me yesterday for 3-betting a minraise by too much - do you think that's the case here?

Thoughts appreciated.


Thanks.

.............................................

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter (http://www.learnhowtoplaypokerfree.com/convert/convert.cgi) Courtesy of PokerZion.com (http://PokerZion.com)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB ($64.65)
UTG ($33.55)
<font color="#C00000">MP ($50.80)</font>
CO ($53.15)
Hero ($79.85)
SB ($52.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $1</font>, CO calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP calls $5, CO folds.

Flop: ($13.75) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($13.75) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5.

River: ($23.75) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $8</font>

[davekngs]

I think your line is good if you bet more on the river. I would bet atleast 13

[tarheeljks]

$8 seems a little small, are you going to call if he makes a big raise? i'm betting around 12.

[juggler97531]

isn't this kind of flop the place where ususal donk thinks: "JJx! now way he has jack! my 66 is gooood." i like to bet the flop, bet the turn, bet the river(all for value) and fold if villain raises or bets at any street

[Vinetou]

It is not such an easy fold if he raises along the way. What about 99,TT, QQ, if we assume donks?

[Machavelli]

I think raising to six pre-flop is not good. Raise to 4.5 or 5. I dont mind the check behind on the flop. River bet is really small. Bet half pot.

[juggler97531]

the only raise i may consider calling is flop/check-raise.
If we will just keep betting it is very unlikely that Villain will donk or raise weak 1 pair hands. If he will e.g. call flop and donk turn(with decent bet of course) i think it is fold.
I really think that against donk just valuebetting hand like this is great. however if they are raising or betting into us we should give up even hands slightly better than average like this one
But this only works if we will keep betting. If we will check than even donk can bet into us with any two, and then wwe have difficult decision to face. If we are aggressors than they will likely raise us only with v good hands.

[Chomp]

[ QUOTE ]
isn't this kind of flop the place where ususal donk thinks: "JJx! now way he has jack! my 66 is gooood."

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to find the opposite actually: good players will suspect you don't have a J, whereas bad players - who are thinking on level 1 - assume your bet = a J.

Thanks for replies. Concensus seems to be 3b preflop less and bet river more. That sounds about right looking at it again.

[HBomb]

bet flop 75% of pot, if called a check on turn is fine, then bet river 50% pot to get value IMO

[Ikaika]

[ QUOTE ]
bet flop 75% of pot, if called a check on turn is fine, then bet river 50% pot to get value IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this.

[Hellmouth]

[ QUOTE ]
bet flop 75% of pot, if called a check on turn is fine, then bet river 50% pot to get value IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you call the weird turn donk?

Greg

[HBomb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bet flop 75% of pot, if called a check on turn is fine, then bet river 50% pot to get value IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you call the weird turn donk?

Greg

[/ QUOTE ]

I, myself am calling the turn bet of $5 into a $13+ pot at the time. Check/calling the river too unless it's a pretty big push, then I might let go of it. But up to a 75% pot bet I'm probably calling here being that he could have 88-QQ without JJ most likely.

[0evg0]

raise pf to 5

as played, lead flop for 9

check behind on turn

3/5 psb river

get called by 88

profit

[SirFelixCat]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...ue#Post10146448 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=microplnl&amp;Number=10146448 &amp;Searchpage=1&amp;Main=10146448&amp;Words=%2Bminimize+SirF elixCat&amp;topic=&amp;Search=true#Post10146448)