The least obvious reason to bet

[Supwithbates]

To make a worse hand fold. My question is, how often is this a valid reason to bet?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($4.61)
MP ($1.60)
Button ($5.52)
SB ($6.67)
Hero ($6.52)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $0.05, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.15) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks

Under what conditions should I bet here

[fingersmith]

I would say never bet here, you get called by nothing you beat. Why make a worse hand fold? there are no draws out there.

[jmgambler]

I dont really understand the question?..... but the bet here is obvious unless I am missing something?

[Spechel EDD]

i bet because i want people to know that i do bet with hands that arent the nuts. its all about setting up an image for yourself and these tiny pots are fine. bet about .10 and expect a fold from utg and sb the majority of the time. if you get called you can always slow down and c/f turn or river.

your future big hands will benefit more from people who try to pay attention at these stakes and think "why is he betting all the time, he cant have it here" and end up calling you down light your tp/set/nuts

[fingersmith]

This may be a huge leak of mine... but I check here and see what the turn brings. I just don't see how a bet earns us any money here. We are essentially hoping for a call from just overcards(???) and the times we run into a 7, random pp, or better 2, make it not worth it. I dunno, thoughts?

[Spechel EDD]

[ QUOTE ]
This may be a huge leak of mine... but I check here and see what the turn brings. I just don't see how a bet earns us any money here. We are essentially hoping for a call from just overcards(???) and the times we run into a 7, random pp, or better 2, make it not worth it. I dunno, thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

you dont always have to keep betting turn and river if you bet out and get called on the flop

at these stakes people will call with overs like KQ JT JQ etc etc because theyre pretty.

[fingersmith]

good point EDD. I guess the image thing simply doesn't cross my mind at these stakes, and I assume I'm gonna get paid off later anyway, just because people are bad. but you are probably right about getting calls from pretty overs.

[jmgambler]

[ QUOTE ]
I would say never bet here, you get called by nothing you beat. Why make a worse hand fold? there are no draws out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why let a worse hand catch up?..... if the Sb folds here then fine. *shrugs*

[HotdogPoker]

Also, pretty much any card besides another deuce or seven could be a bad card. It's a weak hand, I'd be happy just to take it down now and not have to worry about whether villain paired on the turn. We're betting to protect our hand.

[Khaos4k]

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I would say never bet here, you get called by nothing you beat. Why make a worse hand fold? there are no draws out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why let a worse hand catch up?..... if the Sb folds here then fine. *shrugs*

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind a worse hand "catching up" actually beats us. Even a jack since our two pair doesn't count, and we'll get outkicked.

[Isura]

It shouldn't matter much what your cards are here.

[jmgambler]

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I would say never bet here, you get called by nothing you beat. Why make a worse hand fold? there are no draws out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why let a worse hand catch up?..... if the Sb folds here then fine. *shrugs*

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind a worse hand "catching up" actually beats us. Even a jack since our two pair doesn't count, and we'll get outkicked.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know my point was, you have paired the board, why not bet rather than let the turn &amp; river give a chance to the Sb to beat us?

[TheDespot]

If you check here you're basically conceding this hand because the only way you're going to win it is if the J or 2 falls (and still maybe not if either opponent has the 7) unless you decide you're going to call down bets with this hand, which I probably would not advise generally speaking. Any other card than a 2 or J is a bad card for this hand. Yeah, not too many hands worse than yours are going to call, maybe big cards putting you on a steal, but I don't see why you would want to see a turn here because it's not going to be to your benefit. Either it's a card that actually helps the opponents or a scare card, neither of which you want obviously.

[Triggerle]

Bet for sure. You do want worse hands to fold since any card could improve villian to beat you.

[Supwithbates]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet for sure. You do want worse hands to fold since any card could improve villian to beat you.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering if a bet in this case, where no worse hand is calling, could have a positive expectation OOP into 2 players, especially if either of them is tricky enough to float and steal on a later street.

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm wondering if a bet in this case, where no worse hand is calling, could have a positive expectation OOP into 2 players, especially if either of them is tricky enough to float and steal on a later street.

[/ QUOTE ]

you are giving the average 10NL players waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit.

They aren't going to float you here - they are going to maybe call with their pretty KJ or AT or whatever and then fold when you bet the turn after they miss even if they call the flop.

[Supwithbates]

[ QUOTE ]
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I'm wondering if a bet in this case, where no worse hand is calling, could have a positive expectation OOP into 2 players, especially if either of them is tricky enough to float and steal on a later street.

[/ QUOTE ]

you are giving the average 10NL players waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit.

They aren't going to float you here - they are going to maybe call with their pretty KJ or AT or whatever and then fold when you bet the turn after they miss even if they call the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
So I should double barrel if I get called?
BTW I play 25nl not 10nl, this hand is an abberation

[Supwithbates]

[ QUOTE ]
It shouldn't matter much what your cards are here.

[/ QUOTE ]
pls elaborate

[Machavelli]

I only do this as a means to take down a pot, ie I might be ahead at the moment but have a tough road to SD or little equity at show down. I will give up on the hand if called and unimproved.

[foal]

For those of you who don't like a bet here I'm curious what your alternate plan would be. Check with the intention of calling a bet on the turn? That strikes me as dangerous, since he's more likely to improve than you are and any improvement beats you. Give up on the hand unless you hit a Jack or a 2? Seems like it'd be less profitable than simply laying claim to the pot with a small bet, consider your chances.

[Supwithbates]

[ QUOTE ]
For those of you who don't like a bet here I'm curious what your alternate plan would be. Check with the intention of calling a bet on the turn? That strikes me as dangerous, since he's more likely to improve than you are and any improvement beats you. Give up on the hand unless you hit a Jack or a 2? Seems like it'd be less profitable than simply laying claim to the pot with a small bet, consider your chances.

[/ QUOTE ]
give up, check/fold if anyone bets
at more passive tables, they are more likely to call you down and give you difficult decisions as to whether to double barrel etc, but less likely to actually put YOU to a difficult decision
at the same time, passive tables will generally let you get to a cheap showdown

[Lordy]

If I think I can get them to fold a lot, I bet. If not, I c/f.

You're not winning a showdown very often if someone bets later, so might as well get them to fold before they improve.

[sww]

Your 2 is here totally meaningless. Your hand stands zero heat. You have to play against other people here, not your cards. That being said, it is a very marginal spot and if you dont like marginal spots, check/fold every street. I have nothing against betting but you could have 34o here as well.