QQ coolered or could have saved money?

[jmgambler]

Dear All,

Bad play?... or is this a "tough break move on" HH

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 5 Players - (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/)

SB: $7.85
BB: $27.70
Hero (UTG): $20.90
CO: $37.25
BTN: $24.25

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 Players)
Hero raises to $1, CO folds, BTN calls $1, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.35) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
Hero bets $2.25, BTN calls $2.25

Turn: ($6.85) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
Hero bets $4.75, BTN calls $4.75

River: ($16.35) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
Hero bets $5, BTN raises to $13, Hero calls all-in for $7.90
Uncalled bet of $0.10 returned to BTN

Pot Size: $42.15 ($2 Rake)

BTN had 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (a flush, Ace high) and WON (+$19.25)
Hero had Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif and LOST (-$20.90)

[PietM]

Don't post results. We're not interested in your bad beats, we're here to discuss your play.

Second: reload PF. Shortstacking isn't the way to go IMO.

On to the hand: Villain calling all the way looks like a draw to me. The call on the flop could be a slowplay, but I think most players would raise the turn. As you have the Q of spades you still outs in case villain has a small flush.

Your small bet on the turn smells like weakness to me. Villain could raise you here with any two, putting you on a flushdraw. I'd check here and let him bluff if he was on a draw and missed.

[jmgambler]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't post results. We're not interested in your bad beats, we're here to discuss your play.

[/ QUOTE ]

In as much as I thank you for your comments, I really dont need the sanctimonious rhetoric, as you might note I registered at 2+2 in 2004, I know how the forum works and have 1000's of posts at other forums.

The question was: QQ Coolered or could have saved money? which your answer (and what I thought afterwards) was a turn check.. however if villian had pushed, I do not know whether I could have folded as given the action I put him on A/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif or similar.

[Ikaika]

His line would probably make me slow down(fwiw I'd bet 1/2 pot on the turn); I'd probably check the river and call a reasonable bet. He'll bet with AsJ, but I don't think he'll raise what looks like an obvious "call me please" bet on the river with something that you beat.

[Supwithbates]

fold to the river raise, he's not doing this with a hand you beat... other than that NH

[PietM]

In my humble opinion we're trying to learn what the best line for a situation is. Not if we can save money / extract more money knowing the results. You could've saved $20 here by folding preflop... Although that line would kinda suck. I'm trying to analyze the hand without knowing villains hand, as I would have to do at the tables (when my Pattern Mapper is broken anyway /images/graemlins/wink.gif ).

I wouldn't check on the turn. If villain would've raised it would've been a different situation. I'm not really sure I could let it go then.
In retrospect, I think all the money is going in anyway. I don't really see how you can get away here...

[PietM]

[ QUOTE ]
fold to the river raise, he's not doing this with a hand you beat... other than that NH

[/ QUOTE ]

You're folding to a $8 raise in a $24 pot? Hm, I'm not sure if I could do that...

[Ikaika]

you actually think you're good here enough to make calling the river shove profitable?

[jmgambler]

[ QUOTE ]
In retrospect, I think all the money is going in anyway. I don't really see how you can get away here...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, kinda what I figured too.... but wanted some confirmation.... apologies for the retort

[Hundrye]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold to the river raise, he's not doing this with a hand you beat... other than that NH

[/ QUOTE ]

You're folding to a $8 raise in a $24 pot? Hm, I'm not sure if I could do that...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't usually think that folding the river with a hand this good with these pot odds is good. But in this case, I think a fold to his river RAI is definitely the best play. I really don't see a villain bluffing here while giving such great odds to call, or villain value-raising with AJ on this board... (I'd always call this i think btw, but when thinking about it i'm pretty sure this is a fold)

Edit: after doing some more analysis on the hand, I think after his All-in on the river, i think villain only has a flush or KsKx/AsAx

[guitarizt]

Actually I think you played it well. Villain could have been putting you on ak. I'm not sure if you bet small on the river to induce a bluff, but I might have either check called the river, or bet big on the river if I thought villain had a J. You didn't play this hand poorly though.

[Machavelli]

I think you'll be better off check/calling river. He called down 2 streets and you only have an overpair.

[shmoosh]

With no reads I play it the same, only thing I'd change is betting full pot on turn to get max value from draws, this way you'll have 10 behind for the river and you can just push

[BevillTheDevil]

looks good to me but i like a c/c on the river as played though theres no way im foldin on river gettin almost 4.5 to 1 with an overpair...