Two pairs should I call an allin?

[wotttttttttt]

Hey guys! I heard about this place off the back of my harrington on hold'em book, and thought you guys might want to talk about some poker!

This is a hand I played at the 1 cent 2 cent stakes, this guy never played any hands, he'd been at the table for like half an hour and I'd only seen him play one other hand

by the turn I got scared he had an overpair and a better 2 pair, with such a tight player is this fold ok?

PokerStars Game #9649053089: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2007/04/28 - 12:08:23 (ET)
Table 'Hiera' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: AAATonyKK ($2.11 in chips)
Seat 2: Mitz45 ($1.42 in chips)
Seat 3: wotttttttttt ($2.18 in chips)
Seat 4: iD,Squall ($5 in chips)
Seat 5: hannithebest ($3.22 in chips)
Seat 6: Ti-Lex19 ($0.41 in chips)
iD,Squall: posts small blind $0.01
hannithebest: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wotttttttttt [9h Qh]
Ti-Lex19: folds
AAATonyKK: calls $0.02
Mitz45: calls $0.02
wotttttttttt: raises $0.10 to $0.12
iD,Squall: folds
hannithebest: folds
AAATonyKK: calls $0.10
Mitz45: folds
*** FLOP *** [2s 9c Qc]
AAATonyKK: checks
wotttttttttt: bets $0.25
AAATonyKK: calls $0.25
*** TURN *** [2s 9c Qc] [2d]
AAATonyKK: checks
wotttttttttt: bets $0.45
AAATonyKK: raises $1.29 to $1.74 and is all-in
wotttttttttt said, "I had you until that turn"
wotttttttttt: folds
Mitz45 said, "you might still"
AAATonyKK collected $1.64 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.69 | Rake $0.05
Board [2s 9c Qc 2d]
Seat 1: AAATonyKK collected ($1.64)
Seat 2: Mitz45 folded before Flop
Seat 3: wotttttttttt (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 4: iD,Squall (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: hannithebest (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Ti-Lex19 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[bluffbetter]

I don't fold this. At these stakes I think it's extremely difficult to put someone on a set on this board. He could easily have AA/KK. I think lets say he has AA then he probably puts you on either KK or AQ because you raised pre.
And he may well have raised the turn incase you had Ac Kc because of some of the very loose play you see at these stakes.

[Mr_Pathetic]

Don't forget to use http://www.legopoker.com/hh/ to convert hands.

I know this villain and I think its a coin flip. He does play considerably tight but even with that he could have had AQ or KQ or QJ here. He would have reraised with a big pair like KK or AA or QQ. The A2s is possible as well.

[Machavelli]

Use a converter:
http://www.legopoker.com/hh/index.php

[Hundrye]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't fold this. At these stakes I think it's extremely difficult to put someone on a set on this board. He could easily have AA/KK. I think lets say he has AA then he probably puts you on either KK or AQ because you raised pre.
And he may well have raised the turn incase you had Ac Kc because of some of the very loose play you see at these stakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero loses to AA and KK

[wotttttttttt]

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.01/$0.02 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/))

SB: $5
BB: $3.22
UTG: $0.41
MP: $2.11
CO: $1.42
<font color="black">Hero (BTN): $2.18</font>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 Players)
UTG folds, MP calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, <font color="red">Hero raises to $0.12</font>, 2 folds, MP calls $0.10, CO folds
Uncalled bet of $0 returned to MP

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($0.29) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
MP checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $0.25</font>, MP calls $0.25

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($0.79) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
MP checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $0.45</font>, <font color="red">MP raises all-in to $1.74</font>, Hero folds

Pot Size: $2.98 ($0.05 Rake)


bluffbetter, AA/KK beat me because they have a better two pair than me

[bluffbetter]

Yeah sorry that was a stupid mistake!

[Supwithbates]

If MP is as tight as you claim, OP, then you shouldn't be raising this easily dominated hand into him. Also, rebuy to full prehand

[pureklas]

Welcome to the forums!

I don't really like your pf raise w/ Q9s; at these stakes someone usually calls and you have a very marginal hand but at least you have position and I like the idea of trying to pick up the dead money at slightly higher stakes. What's your image like at this table? Have you shown down hands were you have raised light before? Are you playing loose and aggressive?

That said we have to put villain on a range of hands. What would villain limp with? For the purpose of your hand we will assume villain knows how to play poker and therefore we can rule out a limp/call w/ AA,KK,QQ,AQ, as he would raise these hands and in case of AA,KK 4bet pf and at the least would most likely lead or checkraise the flop. Unless of course you have a read that villain is passive pf even with big hands which you don't.

Hands that villain would limp imo are KQ though I was torn whether to include this in the raise category il inc w/ limps based on the stakes QJ,QT,A2,99,22,JT. I have included JT to represent a semi bluff on the turn.

Now to the flop you have to ask yourself what hands could villain check call with considering you are representing a big hand both pf and post flop. Imo he can only check/call with A2 /images/graemlins/club.gif,99,22,KQ,QJ, possibly QT, JT /images/graemlins/club.gif on the flop.

On the turn the check raise is a strong move and I dont think he is bluffing based on how tight you say he has previosly been but your bet on the turn was very weak 45c into a 79c pot (,ake it at least 2/3 of pot) and villain could have picked up on this and so could have pushed w/ KQ,QJ,QT all of which you can beat.

Hands you can't beat AA, KK, QQ, A2, 22, 99. I have already ruled out AA,KK,QQ and because there is a flush draw, straight draw on the board and you are representing a big hand these factors make it more likely that villain would raise with 22,99 on the flop and as 22 just made the nuts on the turn a flat call is more likely than an allin check raise. A2 /images/graemlins/club.gif made trips on the turn and is the most likely hand that fits with the check call line on the flop and hand therefore it was a good laydown. The only doubt I would have is your weak turn bet. Regardless of the weak bet Baluga whale theorem also makes this a fold (see and make use of the sticky threads for this and other priceless info). Also villain's comment of you still might be is a confident statement and looks like he is inviting a call.

[Spanky1974]

Easy fold against this guy.

[Supwithbates]

[ QUOTE ]
Welcome to the forums!

I don't really like your pf raise w/ Q9s; at these stakes someone usually calls and you have a very marginal hand but at least you have position and I like the idea of trying to pick up the dead money at slightly higher stakes. What's your image like at this table? Have you shown down hands were you have raised light before? Are you playing loose and aggressive?

That said we have to put villain on a range of hands. What would villain limp with? For the purpose of your hand we will assume villain knows how to play poker and therefore we can rule out a limp/call w/ AA,KK,QQ,AQ, as he would raise these hands and in case of AA,KK 4bet pf and at the least would most likely lead or checkraise the flop. Unless of course you have a read that villain is passive pf even with big hands which you don't.

Hands that villain would limp imo are KQ though I was torn whether to include this in the raise category il inc w/ limps based on the stakes QJ,QT,A2,99,22,JT. I have included JT to represent a semi bluff on the turn.

Now to the flop you have to ask yourself what hands could villain check call with considering you are representing a big hand both pf and post flop. Imo he can only check/call with A2 /images/graemlins/club.gif,99,22,KQ,QJ, possibly QT, JT /images/graemlins/club.gif on the flop.

On the turn the check raise is a strong move and I dont think he is bluffing based on how tight you say he has previosly been but your bet on the turn was very weak 45c into a 79c pot (,ake it at least 2/3 of pot) and villain could have picked up on this and so could have pushed w/ KQ,QJ,QT all of which you can beat.

Hands you can't beat AA, KK, QQ, A2, 22, 99. I have already ruled out AA,KK,QQ and because there is a flush draw, straight draw on the board and you are representing a big hand these factors make it more likely that villain would raise with 22,99 on the flop and as 22 just made the nuts on the turn a flat call is more likely than an allin check raise. A2 /images/graemlins/club.gif made trips on the turn and is the most likely hand that fits with the check call line on the flop and hand therefore it was a good laydown. The only doubt I would have is your weak turn bet. Regardless of the weak bet Baluga whale theorem also makes this a fold (see and make use of the sticky threads for this and other priceless info). Also villain's comment of you still might be is a confident statement and looks like he is inviting a call.

[/ QUOTE ]
baluga theorem does not apply here, it applies to one pair hands facing a turn raise. This does not apply to this hand, DUCY?

[pureklas]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Welcome to the forums!

I don't really like your pf raise w/ Q9s; at these stakes someone usually calls and you have a very marginal hand but at least you have position and I like the idea of trying to pick up the dead money at slightly higher stakes. What's your image like at this table? Have you shown down hands were you have raised light before? Are you playing loose and aggressive?

That said we have to put villain on a range of hands. What would villain limp with? For the purpose of your hand we will assume villain knows how to play poker and therefore we can rule out a limp/call w/ AA,KK,QQ,AQ, as he would raise these hands and in case of AA,KK 4bet pf and at the least would most likely lead or checkraise the flop. Unless of course you have a read that villain is passive pf even with big hands which you don't.

Hands that villain would limp imo are KQ though I was torn whether to include this in the raise category il inc w/ limps based on the stakes QJ,QT,A2,99,22,JT. I have included JT to represent a semi bluff on the turn.

Now to the flop you have to ask yourself what hands could villain check call with considering you are representing a big hand both pf and post flop. Imo he can only check/call with A2 /images/graemlins/club.gif,99,22,KQ,QJ, possibly QT, JT /images/graemlins/club.gif on the flop.

On the turn the check raise is a strong move and I dont think he is bluffing based on how tight you say he has previosly been but your bet on the turn was very weak 45c into a 79c pot (,ake it at least 2/3 of pot) and villain could have picked up on this and so could have pushed w/ KQ,QJ,QT all of which you can beat.

Hands you can't beat AA, KK, QQ, A2, 22, 99. I have already ruled out AA,KK,QQ and because there is a flush draw, straight draw on the board and you are representing a big hand these factors make it more likely that villain would raise with 22,99 on the flop and as 22 just made the nuts on the turn a flat call is more likely than an allin check raise. A2 /images/graemlins/club.gif made trips on the turn and is the most likely hand that fits with the check call line on the flop and hand therefore it was a good laydown. The only doubt I would have is your weak turn bet. Regardless of the weak bet Baluga whale theorem also makes this a fold (see and make use of the sticky threads for this and other priceless info). Also villain's comment of you still might be is a confident statement and looks like he is inviting a call.

[/ QUOTE ]
baluga theorem does not apply here, it applies to one pair hands facing a turn raise. This does not apply to this hand, DUCY?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah. Needed to read over it again thanks /images/graemlins/grin.gif