NL50 - I bluff a 60/20/2 because of his donkbets.

[Triggerle]

I am definitely not proud of this hand. To my defense, I must have had a nitty image since I folded for several orbits. My thoughts on the turn were that he was on a flush draw, which (1) comes in less often than not and (2) that he would fold turn a significant amount of the time.

Villian is 60/20/2 over a small sample and there's no indication that he is a calling station post-flop.

EverestPoker Game #1453051930: Table Doha-20 - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:19:14 - 2007/04/27
Seat 1: SB ($70.15)
Seat 2: BB ($36.08)
Seat 4: UTG ($43.40)
Seat 5: Hero ($50.67)
Seat 6: Button ($32.15)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero (CO) [Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif]
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.00</font>, 2 folds, BB calls $1.50.

*** FLOP *** [4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif]
<font color="green">BB bets $0.50</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $4.00</font>, BB calls $3.50.

*** TURN *** [4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif] [3/images/graemlins/club.gif]
<font color="green">BB bets $0.50</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $12.00</font>, BB calls $11.50.

*** RIVER *** [4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif] [5/images/graemlins/spade.gif]
BB checks, Hero checks.

[Dilznoofus]

Are you unhappy because you bluff-raised the turn after he called your flop raise or because you didn't bet the river?

I think if I decide to raise the turn I go ahead and fire the river. This is very often a draw, but some of the time it's 2nd pair or some other weird hand that can't fade a river bet but still beats you. And of course some of the time it's a very strong hand and villain thinks he's being clever.

I think the reasons you stated for raising the turn are sound, but I'd prefer to have more of a read on villain before I try pulling this.

[hra146]

We all sometimes do it, but try to avoid it.

At these stakes just stick with the standard stuff. You need A READ to do this, not a "there is no read that he isnt" read.

There will be other occasions to beat a 60/20 25NL player out of his money

[Triggerle]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you unhappy because you bluff-raised the turn after he called your flop raise or because you didn't bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I'm not as unhappy with the hand as it may seem. Raising these donk-bets works more often than not. On the river I could not see how he would call anything with a weaker hand and I decided to go for my showdown value.

[mikechops]

I'd be more patient pre-flop. You really need BB to fold better hands to makes this work. Most players will, but a 60/20 guy will defend too often.

I like the flop, but I give up after he calls.

[Antinome]

Actually the fact that he is loose makes me happier with this preflop raise- Q5 is ahead of his calling range preflop, and we will have position. I of course would prefer a slightly better hand- I joked in the other thread that I'd wait for Q7s- but anytime I'm raising in position with what is probably the best hand when called I'm reasonably happy. The edge is small, but that's all I ever ask for.

[Lordy]

I don't like the turn raise too much. When he calls anyway on the flop, he's not intending to fold on the turn.

I'd rather call turn. You're getting odds to hit your gutshot, and your queen outs might be good too.

[ QUOTE ]
Actually the fact that he is loose makes me happier with this preflop raise- Q5 is ahead of his calling range preflop, and we will have position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get this logic, seriously. Who cares if we're ahead pre-flop ? It's not like the hand is gonna get checked down post-flop.
When you raise a suited queen, you want to take it down uncontested. You don't want a call even if it's from someone who only calls with "worse" hands pre-flop.

[Antinome]

Are we playing the same game? Any time money goes in and I'm ahead I win. Obviously I prefer a fold because my equity edge here when called is smaller than the blinds are worth, but when both getting a fold and getting a call are profitable, then it can't be bad. (unless the situation i'm getting into with a call is one with huge reverse implied odds)

Now once he donkbets flop, I know he either has a weak made hand that beats me, or a better draw than me, and I know I've probably been outdrawn. C'est la vie. If I know he can fold draws and weak made hands, or donkbets with air, I'd fire at the flop, but otherwise I just fold. Putting money in behind with a bad draw and very little fold equity is not
smart. Save that cash and raise him twice more with hands that are ahead of his range. Waiting for premium hands he can easily identify and avoid is not neccesary.