50NL: Maximize when ahead...minimize when behind...you like?

[SirFelixCat]

Lose the least when behind and make the most by letting monkey boy (60/25/2.6 and just terrible) take control...good or bad?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/))

<u>SB: $34.45</u>
<u>Hero (BB): $50</u>
UTG: $54.20
CO: $59.90
BTN: $36.05

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt Q/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 Players)
3 folds, SB calls $0.25, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.50</font>, SB calls $2

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($5) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero checks

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($5) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $1</font>, Hero calls $1

<font color="black">River:</font> ($7) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5

Pot Size: $17 ($0.85 Rake)

[corsakh]

Ye. Just tryed this line. Payed off third my stack. Good line /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Lego05]

I think it looks fine.

Anybody think we can make a small raise on the river to get him to call with a smaller pocket pair? I've been looking for more spots to valuebet the river.

[Skleice]

I don't see why not bet the flop?

[SirFelixCat]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see why not bet the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Once again, was chatting with a 2p2 about this hand...I posted it in the microbrew, but once again, got overlooked so I thought I'd get some thought here.

Why do we not bet the flop? Well, 1 of 3 things happen when we bet the flop: Villain folds (we win zero), villain calls (fun spot), villain c/r (even more fun spot).

If villain bricks, which, odds are he did, we're losing any chance at him bluffing this and therefore, we waste a strong hand w/ SD value. So we appear weak and try to induce at least one street of bluffs from villain. Not to mention that if we're ahead, villain is drawing reallllllly thin, so why not check behind and induce a bluff?

If we bet and villain calls, sure we can check the turn behind or we muck the turn. A case could be made, but again, if villain has squadoosh, then he's not calling the flop.

If he c/r's well, we probably are not getting to showdown. Sure we can call his c/r and see what happens on the turn, but ugh.

By checking the flop, we let Mr. I'm bad at poker bluff, as we look scared of the KKx flop...

I just don't see how this isn't the right line here...off to bed, but will check this out later today.

[Sweir]

I like this line against an aggro 50NL donk but it becomes pretty transparent when you try it against better players, because i'm almost allways cbetting that flop with air.

[EMc]

SFC,

Me likie. There may be some value in raising hte turn if you think hes not gonna be that river.

Sk,

Our hand has decent showodwn value, betting the flop just pretty much turns our hand into a bluff, among other things SFC pointed out.

[munkey]

I play the flop the same, problem I struggle with and eMc alluded to is given his weaksauce bets we should raise somewhere for value?

I think IP river call fine, if he checked I would obviously bet. I still feel we should raise somewhere I think eMC may be right -on the turn gives us cheap showdown if he calls but he may think we have Kx and are slowplaying. Not sure really.

[payday]

Well Played. I think getting to showdown without a raise is fine. I would have bet the river had he checked to me as Munkey said.

If I had enough info to put a raise in it would be the turn, I dont think many hands you beat call a decent raise on the river.

[SirFelixCat]

Had he checked the river, I surely would have bet.

That said, I'd like to investigate the raising of the turn more though...is there really any value in raising there? I suppose if he picks up a flush draw, we may get a call, but otherwise, what calls us here?

And by just calling the turn, do we also induce a further bluff on the river by NOT raising the turn? Seems to be either a '6-ofone-half-dozen-of-the-other' no?

[Lordy]

If villain doesn't c/r much, I'd bet the flop. He's calling with any pocket pair.
Then check turn, call safe river or bet if checked to.

Your line is good too.

[Antinome]

I've been going back and forth on these hands for at least a year now, trying to find the right balance between turning my hand into a bluff, calling down with a second best hand, getting bluffed off the best hand.

Some things I now take into account:

1. Is the flop twoflushed or straightening or both? If so, I can often get called with worse hands, so I bet it.

2. Does villian understand cbets? If I bet, will he call anyway with 99 and see if I check behind turn, and make a river value bet? In other words, If betting will not really turn my hand into a bluff, I bet.

3. Does villian size bets oddly? will I be faceing a PSB on turn and river if I check now no matter what? Will a bluff blocker/check behind turn actually get me a smaller pot? Or will he underbet turn and river, allowing me to call down comfortably?

In this particular hand I think checking flop is fine, I'd be looking for some read on what the turn bet means- I call it the first time round- if it turns out he does that with flush draws the next time I'd raise him. River call is perfect. nh.