AK with maniac image

[czGLoRy]

So, I had raised literally every hand since the button (all with legit hands, think I had AJs, AQ and QQ, getting around $20 in the last few hands. Now I pick up AK UTG.
I get re-raised by the button thinking he is playing back at me, and a call from MP. I put the button on a weaker ace playing back at my maniac play, and decided to try to stack his short-stack on a favorable flop.

-- everything worked as I wanted, good flop, he bet, i check raised. Problem was MP woke up and shoved, making button fold. Now, I don't know what line I should have taken here. I wanted to stack the button with his weak ace, but what about MP? How do I avoid going broke with just top pair vs MP's hand, while trying to stack buttons weaker king or JJ type hand?


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($249.30)
Hero ($76.30)
MP ($54.05)
Button ($26.50)
SB ($23.40)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/diamond.gif.
Hero raises to $2</font>, MP calls $2, Button raises to $5.5, 2 folds</font>, Hero calls $3.50, MP calls $3.50.

Flop: ($17.25) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/heart.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/heart.gif (3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets $8.5</font>,Hero raises to $25</font>, MP raises to $48.55 (All-In)</font>, Button folds, Hero calls $23.55.

Turn: ($122.85) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($122.85) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/spade.gif 2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $122.85

(knew I probably didnt ahve the best hand after MP shoved but I thought I was getting odds to call on the off-chance he is playing back at me, has something like KQ, or I have outs, was this close or incorrect usually?

[ispiked]

What sort of hand do you think MP is flat calling both pre-flop raises with? I think he'd re-raise AA or KK here unless he's really trying to trap you. That said, calling with 22 or 55 here seems plausible since he's getting the odds.

Why did you check the flop here? The check raise seems OK, but I really don't like calling MP's AI. He's really not getting much fold equity with his AI since you're getting the odds to call. Plus, the board is non-drawy (unless he has A3s or A4s, which is only a gutshot). I've found that most of the times I play for stacks here I lose with TPTK against a set and win when I'm on the other end.

Also, you may have a maniac image, but I don't think this prevents people from having a good hand here. Yes, someone might be more prone to call with weaker holdings, but it doesn't mean they couldn't have flopped a set here.

[.xxxx.]

3bet pf to isolate BTN there, as played you give pp's proper odds....

[ocdscale]

I like the check raise, I fold to the shove.
AK is at the very bottom of MP's range. I think you see AA here at least, a set a ton of times.

I also agree 3betting PF is a good idea if you can put button on a weak ace.

[Bowlboy]

Given your image definitely 4bet this preflop. Get called by AQ a lot here. As played though I definitely lead this flop because, as a maniac, it's what you are expected to do. You're not getting any credit for a King. You're probably bound to get more action from worst hands by leading. No need to play deceptive when the strength of your hand is disguised by your image.

[michaelantoi]

The CR indicates strength from you. If MP has half a brain he will realise this and he still shoves.

Stats on MP?

Regardless (well unless under exeptional situations) i'm folding to his r/r AI here.

I'm sure you'll see a set most of the time.

What do you beat here that is plausible for the PF call? KQ? Same hand (not beating obv.)?

I dont think a flush draw would play it this way.

Possiibly a combo draw like A3/A4 hearts, but even so, that is unlikely.

[Bowlboy]

If my image is crappy, as OP's apparently was, I'm happy to get it in pre with AK.

[HANABI]

This is where you should reraise preflop, your image is trash and they wont give you as much credit. As played you're not getting it in with the button but rather mp. Tbh i extremely don't like your flop raise, You realize the mp just check/raised the preflop raiser and reraiser (button), he pretty much always has a set here.

[orange]

PF, I would typically 4-bet. Your OOP with a decent hand that only hits 1/3rd of the time, its a RR-ed pot and maybe multiway, I would 4-bet to isolate.

Flop looks fine.

[Waingro]

pf. Button is sitting with half a stack and you think you have the best hand? Easiest push ever.

[corsakh]

Have to isolate. Calling with AK OOP is not the best idea.

[TheRenaissance]

[ QUOTE ]
Have to isolate. Calling with AK OOP is not the best idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see people say this. So say you raise w AK, someone 3b in pos behind you, you...? Fold? 4b? Assume 100bb stacks, unknown villain.

[corsakh]

Push or fold. If you have AK, chances are the villain has QQ, JJ or a worse ace. Your about 47/53 at worst. By pushing you gain FE against many pockets and even if you get called... You'd hate to see a missedd flop OOP, with five cards to go ur chaces are much better.

Now look at this. Say I have AK vs your 22. Preflop I am a huge dog, I have 0 chances of wining the hand. None. If there was one flop card to come, I would still be a huge dog about 1 to 10. With two cards to come, I am improving to about 1 in 6 (approximating). With a full board - 48/52. Thats why we dont want to see "just a flop" with AK OOP, the function of hitting with AK on a 5 card range growth faster than the same function of QQ. In position its a differnt story, because its easier to see where we are at. Thats of course assuming we think the opponent 3bets with at least AQ+.

[TheRenaissance]

[ QUOTE ]
Push or fold. If you have AK, chances are the villain has QQ, JJ or a worse ace. Your about 47/53 at worst. By pushing you gain FE against many pockets and even if you get called... You'd hate to see a missedd flop OOP, with five cards to go ur chaces are much better.

Now look at this. Say I have AK vs your 22. Preflop I am a huge dog, I have 0 chances of wining the hand. None. If there was one flop card to come, I would still be a huge dog about 1 to 10. With two cards to come, I am improving to about 1 in 6 (approximating). With a full board - 48/52. Thats why we dont want to see "just a flop" with AK OOP, the function of hitting with AK on a 5 card range growth faster than the same function of QQ. In position its a differnt story, because its easier to see where we are at. Thats of course assuming we think the opponent 3bets with at least AQ+.

[/ QUOTE ]

So against an unknown you would have to assume JJ+/AK and fold right?

[corsakh]

Depends on a lot of factors. In the example above, the raise is samll, the button is short, there is dead money in the pot. I push.

[.xxxx.]

[ QUOTE ]
Now look at this. Say I have AK vs your 22. Preflop I am a huge dog, I have 0 chances of wining the hand. None. If there was one flop card to come, I would still be a huge dog about 1 to 10. With two cards to come, I am improving to about 1 in 6 (approximating). With a full board - 48/52. Thats why we dont want to see "just a flop" with AK OOP, the function of hitting with AK on a 5 card range growth faster than the same function of QQ. In position its a differnt story, because its easier to see where we are at. Thats of course assuming we think the opponent 3bets with at least AQ+.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you getting at with the one flop card, two flop card stuff? You have 0 chances of winning the hand preflop?

Rereading your first paragraph I see that you're advocating pushing preflop with AK OOP because you would have to fold to any sort of aggression on a missed flop. 3betting preflop would gain you a free flop a large portion of the time when unders flop and villain fears your possible overpair, or an overcard hits and they fear your AQ/AK. OOP shouldn't make you commit more money preflop because your main concern should be isolating the 50BB stack. IMO pushing AK is the easiest read in the game because you're not doing this with KK/AA preflop because you're too busy trying to drag villain along for a ride by 3betting and getting nasty and stuff on the flop/turn.

[corsakh]

If we played a poker game where the flop came only one card.

Ok, I am not pushing AA/KK ever. Your right.

[.xxxx.]

sarcasm? You didn't even 3bet, you'd be going from 10BB's to 100. How is that the right play?

[SirFelixCat]

cz and I were chatting about this hand last night, night before, I forget. With shorty's raise, I'm pushing preflop and trying to get MP outta the way. With AA or KK, I don't mind MP tagging along. But if you just call preflop, you have to bet the flop. Unless MP is huge, he has to worry about a squeeze from button, so at least you gain a little info that way, no?

Bear with me, I'm tired and stuff, but I really like the push pre vs shortie....

[corsakh]

A push or a 4bet. I dont see how its relevant. I push lots of hands preflop. I dont remember 4betting ever.