I hope he doesnt read these forums

[TheRenaissance]

...but he probably does.
18/14/1, 100+ hands.
My thinking was that a good part of his range missed/doesnt like the board, and my hand has some showdown value, but really cant stand much heat.

Of course if he reads this forum he should know what I am trying to do.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/))

<font color="black">Hero (SB): $55.25</font>
BB: $45.90
UTG: $29.15
Tighty (MP): $71.95
CO: $23.45
BTN: $12.80

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="red">Tighty raises to $2.25</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls $2, BB folds, UTG calls $1.75

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($7.25) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 Players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="red">Tighty bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5, UTG folds

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($17.25) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $10</font>

[Chomp]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course if he reads this forum he should know what I am trying to do.

[/ QUOTE ]


Seems to me you are trying to do 3 things:

&gt; Stop him from blowing you off your showdownable hand
&gt; For value/protection against overs/worse pairs
&gt; Maybe to try to get a Q to fold (v. marginal)

This seems fine, but at the same time you are not getting calls from 22-77 here, while you are from Tx, probabaly Qx, and certainly JJ-AA.

So really not sure if the 3 positives outweigh the negatives given by far the largest part of his range is overs/pp's IMO, which he'll fold and you are beating anyway.

I guess on balance I feel not allowing him to fire another barrel with a worse hand might be a good enough reason to donk here.

[monkeymaps]

meh I think this folds broadway hands that missed and maybe some small PP 18/14 prob raises some smallish PPs and thats about it IMO dont know if this works enough to be profitable IMO.

[TheRenaissance]

FWIW I should fold out 99/JJ.
Also AK/AJ always checks behind, and I dont want that.

[Isura]

This is bad. Check/fold the flop.

[monkeymaps]

I dont dissagree I just dont know what your repping? looks more like a FD blocking bet that a value/protecting your hand bet, I know its thought to say weither villian has a hand or not with just the flop action but I think you get called alot in this spot.

[Chomp]

[ QUOTE ]
meh I think this folds broadway hands that missed and maybe some small PP 18/14 prob raises some smallish PPs and thats about it IMO dont know if this works enough to be profitable IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree, but I think Ren's point is that a large part of villain's range will bet again if checked to here and we proabably have to fold. Alternatively, he could check behind and draw to his gutshot/overpair and we are toast at showdown.

So, strangely, this bet:

a. Is kind of a bet for information
b. Runs counter to the FToP

and yet may be right. Hmmmmmm................

Was that your thinking Ren?

[monkeymaps]

I would rather c/r flop with air and shut down if called then this line IMO it costs you about the same if it doesnt work.

[TheRenaissance]

[ QUOTE ]
Was that your thinking Ren?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt want to fold the best hand.

[Entropy4]

If you're going to push this hand you need to raise him on flop. Simply calling, he's not going to give you much credit.

I'd personally fold.

[monkeymaps]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Was that your thinking Ren?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt want to fold the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear ya I get myself in these spots sometimes with PPs preflop your thinking is "hope I flop and eight and stack this nits QQ KK AA AK".

Then the flop comes and you think "this might have missed him maybe I have the best hand and you c/c his c-bet

Then on the turn you think hmm dont want to c/c down thats week so you throw out a block/bluff/value blehh bet that doesnt really do much.

OOP I think you just play for a set here and dump flop IP then maybe make a play.

If you really think you have the best hand I make a move on the flop c/r or donk bet etc.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]

OOP I think you just play for a set here and dump flop IP then maybe make a play.

If you really think you have the best hand I make a move on the flop c/r or donk bet etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly. c/r is still far better than anything else, especially when he bet into 2 people on such a bad board for us.

[C4LL4W4Y]

If you hit this flop, you'd bet out, considering a.) how wet it is, and b.) UTG is between you and the raiser and you want to give him a chance to come along for the ride.

I can't really tell what you're trying to rep.

[sww]

If the hand has any showdown value, float line turns it into a bluff, no? If you think your hand has enough value then check/call all the streets and find a fold in right spot if needed. Easier and probably better is to either bluff with it or fold it.

[doppelganger]

[ QUOTE ]
This is bad. Check/fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Isura. That flop is quite possibly the very worst flop you can see. Every single hand in this villain's range is beating you except for AK and AJ, and they're not folding to a turn bet with such strong draws. (Also, they only comprise about 50% of his range.)

[TheRenaissance]

Turns out villain is a REAL nit. He agonizes forever on the turn, before deciding to call. I hit the emergency switch on my luckbox and river is an 8. I bet 2/3 pot, he agonizes forever AGAIN, before folding what he called a "big hand".

Given his stats I assume this was queens full, putting me squarely on quads.

Ty for feedback, I'll cut back on this floating business.

[monkeymaps]

Glad it worked out. there is no way he folded QQ FWIW.

prob had AA or KK

[TheRenaissance]

[ QUOTE ]
Glad it worked out. there is no way he folded QQ FWIW.

prob had AA or KK

[/ QUOTE ]

Where's that ORLY owl when you need it.

[monkeymaps]

not saying it is impossible but highly unlikely.

18/14/1 isnt as nitty as you think he is prob passive post flop with the low agro number but 18/14 isnt that tight IMO I mean its super tight for 25NL but for muti tabling regs thats standard TAG IMO.

I could be wrong though

[TheRenaissance]

[ QUOTE ]
not saying it is impossible but highly unlikely.

18/14/1 isnt as nitty as you think he is prob passive post flop with the low agro number but 18/14 isnt that tight IMO I mean its super tight for 25NL but for muti tabling regs thats standard TAG IMO.

I could be wrong though

[/ QUOTE ]

You, sir, must fix your sarcasm detector.
I am going to flat out say that I was joking.
No, I do not think villain folded QQ.
He had AA/KK - mayyyyybe AQ.
Or he was a lying sack of [censored] like most people.

[monkeymaps]

consider me leveled then

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]

Given his stats I assume this was queens full, putting me squarely on quads.

[/ QUOTE ]

rofl, no way. Probably KK or AA.

[ADK]

im folding this, pick a better board to float on.

[TheRenaissance]

Guess I am just too subtle for the micros.
I'll move up to a forum where they respect my leveling.

[Vyse]

Yeah, you guys are horrible

[Leviathan101]

I would fold QQ there. You're clearly value betting TT.

I don't like this play. I'd rather c/r but since it's multi way I just c/f it.

[doppelganger]

[ QUOTE ]
Guess I am just too subtle for the micros.
I'll move up to a forum where they respect my leveling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just spit water on my keyboard. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TheRenaissance]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Given his stats I assume this was queens full, putting me squarely on quads.

[/ QUOTE ]

rofl, no way. Probably KK or AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Leveling a n00b is fun.
Leveling a regular is hilarious.
Leveling a mod is ...sublime.

[fees]

flop is fine, turn is horrible

[Hobo McCracken]

With an aggression factor of 1, is this guy c-betting AK/AJ into two people?