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View Full Version : I'm phychologically weak....


aggie
02-16-2006, 09:59 PM
I don't post or read in this forum nearly enough. But this is an email to a friend that may be worthy of some discussion on 2p2. Any advice, comments, slanders, low blows, insperation, etc. are all welcome:

...I'll get back to the LAG/TAG discussion but first let me address the comment that I made the other day: "My life as a pro has been challenging thus far." Basically this is a subject I rarely talk about but I think it will do me some good to lay it out there. Don't worry. I am making some money - but nowhere near the amount I think I'm capable of.

I have said to you that I don't ever think I'll become a great/elite poker player. My memory is poor and my on the spot decision making is never crystal clear. That's okay though because my opponents in general play very, very badly. I believe my technical poker knowledge is far greater than that of most of my opponents (on average) and I also believe that my innate 'feel' for the game is above average. While I can always improve the technical aspect of my game the area that I struggle with the most is the psychological aspect.

Now this might sound cocky but I believe my A-game in poker is pretty darn good. I'm playing my A-game when I'm paying close attention to what all of my opponents, taking my time with my decisions, extracting maximum value with good hands, and minimizing losses with 2nd best hands. To play my A-game my head needs to be clear, I need to think positively, and it helps if I'm running good (even though that shouldn't matter)....

Unfortunately I don't play my A-game nearly enough. But I don't think I'll ever have the discipline to play at my highest level at all times. That's okay because my B-game is also decent and is definitely profitable against my opposition.

My problem is my C through F-games...I play poorly far too often for a number of reasons:

-I tilt. I know that it's all one long session. I know I want that guy calling for his 2 outer. I know it's my decisions that matter and not the result of the hand. But I have a very tough time controlling my emotions when I'm running badly.

-I get bored. It's hard not too when playing a lot of hours. So I'll let it go into autopilot and stop really thinking about my decisions.

-I'm a gambler and I definitely like to gamble. Sometimes I have a hard time controlling myself even though I know I should. I'll oftentimes make a quick decision in order to achieve that 'gambler's rush' that I know wasn't +EV...

Other problem areas that I have had in the past include bankroll management. I've on several occasions made the mistake of losing a substantial part of my bankroll on games that were over my head. Game selection has also been an issue when I'm playing big. I get into the big game to give myself a rush - not because the game looks good.

In short, the biggest holes I believe I have in my poker game are psychological and not technical. The reasons I do better as a TAG than a LAG are also probably more psychological than anything else. I'll discuss that issue more in a future email.

Okay, if you've gotten this far, I'm impressed. Putting this down in words was more for me and I realize will be of limited value to you. But thanks for reading!

Clint

sandsmarc
02-16-2006, 11:37 PM
OMG too much introspection. Talk about the book of excuses and paralysis by analysis. It's real simple in poker. Either you're making lots of bread and are controlling your tables. Or you suck. That's it.

You obviously suck. So get better or quit. Again real simple. You are either controlling your tables, or not.

Banks2334
02-17-2006, 12:25 AM
In reality, you have a "C" game. Just like looking at results in the long term, look at your playing level over the long run. Yes, you can play your A game for a while, but it falls apart in too many ways. The good thing is you know what you are doing wrong and why. Now go and fix it.

hellbender
02-17-2006, 12:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
OMG too much introspection. Talk about the book of excuses and paralysis by analysis. It's real simple in poker. Either you're making lots of bread and are controlling your tables. Or you suck. That's it.

You obviously suck. So get better or quit. Again real simple. You are either controlling your tables, or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF you're an idiot.

Good post OP.

aggie
02-17-2006, 12:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]

OMG too much introspection. Talk about the book of excuses and paralysis by analysis. It's real simple in poker. Either you're making lots of bread and are controlling your tables. Or you suck. That's it.

You obviously suck. So get better or quit. Again real simple. You are either controlling your tables, or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you've been a 2+2 member since '02, are member #355, have made only 57 posts but felt obliged to respond to my post. I'm honored.

idrinkcoors
02-17-2006, 12:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I get bored. It's hard not too when playing a lot of hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many tables are you playing. It's hard for me to get bored with 4 tables.

I know what you mean about going for the gambling rush, and pushing when your EV is negative. Bad news: doing that consistently means you are psychologically weak.

Good news: you are not stuck there. You can always change.

Good luck.

aggie
02-17-2006, 12:44 AM
[ QUOTE ]

How many tables are you playing. It's hard for me to get bored with 4 tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

I Usually 3 6-max tables online. I've also played live extensively. It's funny because i've heard people saying "playing live is soo boring because you hardly get any hands"...I've also heard live players say "playing online is super boring because you are by yourself and can't interact with anybody"

I guess i fall into the second category because i definitely enjoy playing live more than playing online. I've been playing poker for a while so i guess the poker in and of itself can get monotonous at times. But i don't really think it's any different with most other professions.

idrinkcoors
02-17-2006, 12:49 AM
You sound like Mike the Mouth, who, as we've seen, is pretty good in live tournaments.

And as far as his online play: his friends took away his computuer and Mike is quoted as saying: "Online poker is the devil."

mackthefork
02-17-2006, 11:40 AM
I'm not saying this is definite, but you could possibly have FPS tilt, you might pychologically care more about what others think of your play, than how much money you make, I know this affects me sometimes.

Mack

thehotspur
02-17-2006, 12:50 PM
Your spelling is no great shakes either /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Kidding. You say that your biggest holes are psychological and not technical, well to be honest that is true of every player who isn't a total donkey for whom odds are a mystery. The truth is that virtually every player thinks that their technical knowledge is better than the majority of other players, I know because I've researched it, they all think they have an edge because *they* know their odds and play according to them. Truth is the vast majority of players are in exactly the same boat as you technically and it is the psychological differences that make the real difference between players who win a bit mostly and those who win a lot mostly. Every psychological leak you mentioned is a killer, and holding on to a notion of a greater technical prowess or "feel" for the game is somewhat self-deluding for most players. These leaks are far worse than technical leaks because they arise from who you are, and if you don't change that then your game will struggle with them in the future. Changing yourself is hard though, and certainly not worth it for a card game. Sometimes the solution for a player with those kinds of leaks is to play much shorter sessions, instead of playing for 6 hours in a row online, playing for 1 1/2 hours then taking a break of the same amount of time and then doing it again. it can break up the boredom and tilt factors.
The best of luck with accommodating your leaks, at least you realise them which is helpful /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Usagi_yo
02-17-2006, 05:33 PM
You missed the point entirely. Maybe the poster didn't mean to make a point and was simply flaming, but they have inadvertantly made a point in doing so.

Get better or quit. Don't rationalize that your play is perfect or near perfect but you still lose.

aggie
02-17-2006, 08:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Get better or quit. Don't rationalize that your play is perfect or near perfect but you still lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure i never said i was a losing player. Poker is my sole source of income so quitting might be a problem.

pofigistka
02-17-2006, 10:02 PM
It's apparent that you are aware of your weakness. Any advice given will only be helpful if you can focus on playing the best game you can. I find I have had similar difficulties. To be frank it is a very personal issue and takes a great deal of strength of character to keep focused. I'm sure you know what changes to make, perhaps you could motivate yourself by just considering the end result, work towards buying something you fancy. As Caro astutely asserts, the money you don't lose is just as important as the money you win.

All the best and good luck.

sandsmarc
02-17-2006, 10:14 PM
"Wow, you've been a 2+2 member since '02, are member #355, have made only 57 posts but felt obliged to respond to my post. I'm honored."




Don't feel honored. I responded because yours was the 6 billionth similar-sounding whiny post about "A" and "B" games. It just annoyed me more than usual. You're just one of 50,000 other whiny losers looking for the "secret". And I told it to you. Control your tables. It could not be any simpler than that.

aggie
02-17-2006, 11:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Don't feel honored. I responded because yours was the 6 billionth similar-sounding whiny post about "A" and "B" games. It just annoyed me more than usual. You're just one of 50,000 other whiny losers looking for the "secret". And I told it to you. Control your tables. It could not be any simpler than that.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can't help it....I really do feel honored...Thank you for your words wise one /images/graemlins/smile.gif

AJFenix
02-17-2006, 11:53 PM
LOL Aggie, looks like you got all the advice you'll ever need in this thread.

aggie
02-18-2006, 12:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
LOL Aggie, looks like you got all the advice you'll ever need in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

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sexdrugsmoney
02-18-2006, 03:02 AM
I can't offer you any advice but thankyou for your honesty.

rory
02-18-2006, 01:11 PM
Controlling yourself is a poker skill.

aggie
02-18-2006, 01:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Controlling yourself is a poker skill.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that's deep

Coffee
02-18-2006, 09:31 PM
First of all...HOWDY! Class of '02 here.

Second...it sounds like you need to sit down and identify what needs to happen to get you to that "happy place" where you play your A-game.

Third...you need to find a way to scratch those itchy issues of yours. The tilt...take up boxing or something...find a way to get it out of your system about those bastards drawing out on you. The boredom...break up your play into shorter sessions, and do something while you're playing to distract you slightly...but not to lose focus on the proceedings. The gamble...take 40 bucks, and go shoot craps at Foxwoods or something(if you live in CT). Those three problems may go away from you permanently, or they may not...but until they do, you need to channel them away from your source of income.

Hope that helps.