probably standard..

[Kimpan]

no reads...'

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter (http://www.learnhowtoplaypokerfree.com/convert/convert.cgi) Courtesy of PokerZion.com (http://PokerZion.com)

Button ($67.26)
SB ($25.45)
BB ($17.72)
UTG ($65.36)
Hero ($23.80)
CO ($24.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.10) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $2</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $4.10

[RAHZero]

I usually raise donk bets like this, especially with a hand like JJ on this board. If you get called or raised, you're done, but for the most part you'll get villain to fold with a raise to $8 or so.

[C4LL4W4Y]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually raise donk bets like this, especially with a hand like JJ on this board. If you get called or raised, you're done, but for the most part you'll get villain to fold with a raise to $8 or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

[monkeymaps]

What is villians range here? I think I fold too much in these spots I just tell myself that no one folds TP in uNL and just fold.

[goochpkt2002]

do you never have someone donk bet into you with a 4 flush or oesd? i'd donk bet with a flopped set, but most villians seem to like to slow play those. i might also donk with aq. anyone else leaning towards a call here...maybe even a raise to 6 to see where you're at?

[tarheeljks]

even if it is a donk bet, i think this is a fold most of the time. i'm not against raising this occasionally, but he's probably leading w/ something that is currently beating us, or has more equity than us. just b/c he's a donk doesn't mean he cant have hit something that he's trying to protect. now if he donkbets w/air . . .

also, i don't really consider it a donkbet to lead w/a set on a drawy board.

[mostman]

[ QUOTE ]
I just tell myself that no one folds TP in uNL and just fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

With you on this. What kills me usually is the assumption that the donkbet means 'I have top pair' The truth is that is can sometimes mean 'I have bottom pair' /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Raise here - best option. Find out wtf is going on.

[monkeymaps]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just tell myself that no one folds TP in uNL and just fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

With you on this. What kills me usually is the assumption that the donkbet means 'I have top pair' The truth is that is can sometimes mean 'I have bottom pair' /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Raise here - best option. Find out wtf is going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats why I said I think Im giving up too easily in these spots but on the other hand what is a reasonable range for a villian in this spot other than just "draw" or "some pair"

Getting donked into after raising pre is something I struggle with considering we miss the flop alot I am open to learning how to deal with these situations better than I currently am.

Is is safe to assume that if villian had a great hand they would c/r or c/c lead turn or something or is this too player dependent?

[mostman]

Depends on the villain. But usually at this level the donkbet means two things - 'I hit a piece of that' or 'I have a pocket pair and not all of those cards are over it'

Both of these conditions cause our villain to immediately fold to a raise - unless you are dealing with a station. Especially when you are dealing with a station that does not understand that PP != nuts.

[tarheeljks]

i think raising in this spot is very player dependent b/c he doesn't even need a great hand to be ahead of you, just a Q. you need a strong read in order to know if your middle pair is ahead. on this particular board (and drawy boards in general), the bettor has a hand that is ahead of JJ the vast majority of the time. so i think you are basically pissing your money away by playing back more than a small % of the time. for me that small % is based on reads (and random attempts to diversify my play).

it's frustrating when good hands like this don't hold up on the flop, but when you ask yourself "how the **** can he bet into the pfr'er" you should usually realize that its b/c he has hit the flop. it would obviously be different if you had a better pp, but as is i think this should generally be folded.

[monkeymaps]

I think this is a pretty good topic hopefully some of the more experinced posters will chime in .

[Vyse]

I raise to $8. Donkbets piss me off.

[goochpkt2002]

i don't think villian is folding many hands in his range to a raise of 6-8, aside from the random bs and maybe bottom or middle pair. on the other hand, folding still seems weak to me. i'm leaning towards a call. if the river blanks and villian checks, then this says i missed my draw to me and i'm checking behind to pot control and induce a bluff. def. folding to any further aggression though aside from spiking a jack on the turn.

[Cadence Lauren]

How is a raise to $8 into a $4 pot, as two posters have suggested, profitable? If you're done if you get called or raised, you'd have to induce a fold 2/3 of the time to break even, no? Do we really think that's realistic?

This brings us to a $6 bet, which would only have to induce a fold 60% of the time to break even, but which is imo much more likely to be called than the $8 bet. This doesn't sound like a great option, either.

I like folding here, especially with no reads. If villain is bluffing, he got us, but I don't think he's bluffing 60%-67% of the time, and I think he will call a raise when he is bluffing an additional few percent, making both of our raise options unprofitable.

[tarheeljks]

interesting. i agree that raising is more or less pointless as he is not folding very often, but how often are you willing to float the flop here (assuming no reads)?

[dimeetrees]

Small pot, w/ no reads its better to assume hes conservative and fold. Get some reads on the guy and put yourself in a better position to make money.

[goochpkt2002]

to a psb or smaller, against an unknown villian, i've been calling a high % of the time in this situation with position and again folding to further aggression. i think a sig. enough part of their range involves draws and weak hands to warrant a call. but i can def. see the args for folding. raising, i see now is clearly wrong.