50NL JJ vs c/r on K high flop

[BevillTheDevil]

villian is 53/14/1.17...think i shouldve check the flop?? but i hate to see a A/Q hit on turn...the weaker bet on flop intention to fold to raise but then im gettin 3 to 1??

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $4.65
UTG+1: $26.83
Hero: $150.20
Button: $84.12
SB: $25.15
BB: $100

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $1.5</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $6.5</font>, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($15.25, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $8</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises all-in $20.33</font>, Hero ?

[PJo336]

I dont think you can check here after the 3bet preflop. I think this is pretty standard and there was nothing u could do. I would say to bet bigger on the c-bet because yours just screams "I have 10 10-QQ and dont like that flop"

[Goodnews]

Grunch.

Preflop, I flat call here.

Check the flop. Keep the size of the pot down. With your bet on the flop, you essentially give villain 3-1 as well, I would actually bet the pot on the flop and shut down if called.

As played, I fold.

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch.

Preflop, I flat call here.

Check the flop. Keep the size of the pot down. With your bet on the flop, you essentially give villain 3-1 as well, I would actually bet the pot on the flop and shut down if called.

As played, I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
why arent u 3 betting the flop?!!?!? i 3 bet light so i can 4bet here and make mucho monies off these fish

[.xxxx.]

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch.

Preflop, I flat call here.

Check the flop. Keep the size of the pot down. With your bet on the flop, you essentially give villain 3-1 as well, I would actually bet the pot on the flop and shut down if called.

As played, I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please clear these up for me uNL
Assumptions I made based on what a uNL should know:

1) Preflop needs to be 3bet because of both villains' stack sizes, ~54BB's effective, and gaining the most value possible while ahead. Also, I'm willing to call an all in push at these stack sizes if it comes back at me.

2) Checking behind on the flop is the right play. The stack sizes and the small range that you're gaining value from betting out against are my main motives. From villain's view the right play is C/R all in here because the math works right considering his FE,outs,and/or made hand.

3) Getting to the turn and villain still hasn't bet out, then I'd consider betting pot and taking it down because flush/straight outs aren't getting the right math.

[Goodnews]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Grunch.

Preflop, I flat call here.

Check the flop. Keep the size of the pot down. With your bet on the flop, you essentially give villain 3-1 as well, I would actually bet the pot on the flop and shut down if called.

As played, I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
why arent u 3 betting the flop?!!?!? i 3 bet light so i can 4bet here and make mucho monies off these fish

[/ QUOTE ]

Your hand has showdown value, if opponent is one that will not fire on multiple streets (Af 1.7, I don't think he is), then checking the flop is the best play since only hands that beat you will call.

Sorry I am not familiar with what 3 betting means in NL (I play limit).

Also, take my advice with a grain of salt.

[Pirelli]

Bet $12 on the flop and call a push.

[.xxxx.]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet $12 on the flop and call a push.

[/ QUOTE ]
What's your reasoning?

[Panic__NL]

your preflop 3bet implies strength, then you make a 1/2 pot bet on the flop, which shows weakness. No wonder Villian pushes.
But checking here is no option, so bet $12.

[Pirelli]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet $12 on the flop and call a push.

[/ QUOTE ]
What's your reasoning?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to c-bet here as the PF 3-bettor.

Half pot isn't enough, it makes you look too weak IMO.

Once you make a c-bet of $12, you can't fold because he could have a draw, a lower pair, or some complete bluff. There's too much in the pot to fold.

[sww]

If you can't fold to the raise after normal sized c-bet, then I think Hero's line here is better if he calls this, he picks up some bluffs too. Although, I'm not sure if checking behind should be the correct play.

[Sweir]

Obv 3bet here pf. I think that your cbet here shows too much weakness and villain could easily push worse hands here, not to mention draws. I cbet more ~$12, and then call a push because you will be getting such good odds.

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Grunch.

Preflop, I flat call here.

Check the flop. Keep the size of the pot down. With your bet on the flop, you essentially give villain 3-1 as well, I would actually bet the pot on the flop and shut down if called.

As played, I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
why arent u 3 betting the flop?!!?!? i 3 bet light so i can 4bet here and make mucho monies off these fish

[/ QUOTE ]

Your hand has showdown value, if opponent is one that will not fire on multiple streets (Af 1.7, I don't think he is), then checking the flop is the best play since only hands that beat you will call.

Sorry I am not familiar with what 3 betting means in NL (I play limit).

Also, take my advice with a grain of salt.

[/ QUOTE ]
sorry i was askin about preflop even tho i said flop. im a donk /images/graemlins/grin.gif do u still think a 3 bet preflop is no good?!!?!?

[kolotoure]

Preflop 3-bet is standard

Flop : Check and call a shove