5/10 Flopped Middle Set and Capped Turn

[csquard]

Villain wasn't out of line, VP$IP 24/7. Shrug/three-bet river or call? I'm a big believer of erring on the side of the value bet, but without a maniac read is going to the mat here on the river worthwhile?

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter (http://www.pokerhand.org)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls.

River: (15.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero ?

[ProfessorBen]

If villain is 7 PFR, JJ is in his range. I think 6 bets between the turn and river is enough. 33/44 just don't make enough sense to me to 3town.

[Harv72b]

Meh...given that he's not an idiot, the only way you're losing is if he's got JJ exactly, and I'd like to think that even a 24/7 knows enough to 3bet that preflop against a Hijack openraise in 5/10. I'd put in the 3bet and puke a little if he caps (before calling).

Incidentally, depending on BB's PFR numbers I'd think about capping this preflop.

[DrazzicEhv]

Why not raise the flop? 2 to flush on the board.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not raise the flop? 2 to flush on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising the flop doesn't protect our hand from a 4-flush (raising the turn doesn't, either), and a normal BB 3-betting hand is firing again on the turn always. So the flat call likely gets us more money into the pot anyway (I assume we're raising any turn card, including a spade), and gives CO a chance to chase with a hand like 44.

Not saying it's bad to raise the flop here, just saying it's not bad to wait for the turn either.

[csquard]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why not raise the flop? 2 to flush on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising the flop doesn't protect our hand from a 4-flush (raising the turn doesn't, either), and a normal BB 3-betting hand is firing again on the turn always. So the flat call likely gets us more money into the pot anyway (I assume we're raising any turn card, including a spade), and gives CO a chance to chase with a hand like 44.

Not saying it's bad to raise the flop here, just saying it's not bad to wait for the turn either.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I would ever raise the flop unless I had a good read on the table as I've played this, just lose too many people imo.

Results: Villain had J9o, and his notes were updated...

[WalkAmongUs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why not raise the flop? 2 to flush on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising the flop doesn't protect our hand from a 4-flush (raising the turn doesn't, either), and a normal BB 3-betting hand is firing again on the turn always. So the flat call likely gets us more money into the pot anyway (I assume we're raising any turn card, including a spade), and gives CO a chance to chase with a hand like 44.

Not saying it's bad to raise the flop here, just saying it's not bad to wait for the turn either.

[/ QUOTE ]


what about BB putting US on a FD? if he is aggressive, i'd like this.

[Point Blank]

I don't think i would slow play the flop in this situation ...
you open raised from the hijack (so you don't need to have a primo hand here)
J9 and two tone flop has hit a lot of hand so would expect to get played back at
as this is close to a blind steal situation, if you raise the flop here your opponents shouldn't automatically put you on a big hand (you could be raising a number of draws, top pair, middle pair, 2nd pair, or over pair)

if this was heads up and villain is a folder I could wait and raise some turn cards, or wait and raise the river

as played ...
i'm a little suspicious of CO's line - he just calls the flop and cold-3bet after you have take a slow play line ...

I would think he either had 33, J9, AA, KK on the flop (maybe a retard with JJ, but can't see that happening too often) ... or just hit a set of 4s on the turn

this guy doesn't look like a great player so I doubt he is thinking about your line all that much, and probably thinks his hand rules ...
3betting the river can't be bad ... unless he has JJ you're the boss

[BigBadBabar]

i 3bet this river as well

[jstill]

I duno about the river, its pretty close. reads on his cold calling range and flop peeling range are pretty huge here to make a good decision.

If hes one of those loose passives that will show up pretty much equally often here with JJ 33 44 and J9o its a 3bet obviously. If hed usually fold 44 on the flop (some wont often at all) and wouldnt cold call J9o but sometimes 3bets JJ in this spot when he can isolate its getting pretty close/tricky.

I will say tho i raise this flop all day everyday. Its not an issue of protection at all, i do it becuz i want BB to bet 3bet his overpair so I can either cap or call and still raise the turn (if he doesnt have an overpair or TP we probably dont get to raise the turn anyways). I think we get a lot more value this way (often the same amount on the turn vs BB and a bb extra on the flop this way, plus we end up sucking CO into the pot for bets on bigger streets alot more than if we wait and raise the turn shutting him out) rather than letting down the hammer on the turn when hes not gonna put much more action in with as wide a range of hands. Also u usually get preflop cold callng CO cold calling with every gutter and weak pair making lots of mistakes and wed rather not give CO huge odds to correctly peel with a lot of junk hands w bd straight or flush draws.