NL50 - AA preflop - action in front - whats the proper line?

[mostman]

Alright - first post - so go easy on me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Villain 1 (UTG+1) is 40/13/3 (100)
Villain 2 (SB) is 37/11/2 (200)

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB ($54.40)
UTG ($160.80)
<font color="#C00000">UTG+1 ($9.10)</font>
MP1 ($19.10)
<font color="#C00000">mostman ($43.25)</font>
CO ($48.80)
Button ($50)
SB ($42.75)

Preflop: mostman is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $1.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">mostman raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls $2.75, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $10.6 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#CC3333">mostman raises to $46.25 (All-In)</font>, SB folds.

Flop: ...

Final Pot: $60.35

Was this the correct move to shove once villain 2 got all his chips in? Or should I have just flat called allowing villain 2 to call? My thinking was that all of villain 1's chips were enough for me - so why bother running against both of them. Proper?

-Mike

[goat_beard]

id play this one of two ways how u did or call raise hope sb calls then shove flop

[hoyasaxa]

ur reraise is awful and needs to be more. Youre trying to get him to committ his stack, not check fold a missed flop. Otherwise hand is fine, youre looking to go heads up for a decent sized pot anyway.

[mostman]

See thats a leak in my game.

I always think min-raising the initial bet is more likely to get him to come along. I get worried that I'll chase him away. I want one opponent - but I want his whole stack in there. So what should I have made it on top of the 1.5? 4.5?

[hoyasaxa]

you think youre being tricky when you do that by getting more money in the pot. but youre really just inviting action behind you. With aces you want as much money in the pot PF as possible. Reraise to $5 PF, force him to make a decision for his stack. You should still get plenty of action at these stakes.

[mostman]

Yeah - that makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

btw - take a look at the flop /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB ($54.40)
UTG ($160.80)
<font color="#C00000">UTG+1 ($9.10)</font>
MP1 ($19.10)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($43.25)</font>
CO ($48.80)
Button ($50)
SB ($42.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $1.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls $2.75, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $10.6 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $46.25 (All-In)</font>, SB folds.

Flop: ($60.35) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: ($60.35) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: ($60.35) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $60.35

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG+1 has Kc Qs (two pair, aces and fours).
Hero has Ad As (four of a kind, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins $60.35. </font>

[Sweir]

[ QUOTE ]
you think youre being tricky when you do that by getting more money in the pot. but youre really just inviting action behind you. With aces you want as much money in the pot PF as possible. Reraise to $5 PF, force him to make a decision for his stack. You should still get plenty of action at these stakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also if you are playing against someone who is remotely observant they will catch on and realise than you are only doing this when you want a call (ie. with a big hand).

Lol @ flop.

[Ikaika]

Lol @ villains hand.

[Isura]

I think the right play is to just call (but its higher variance!). I want the 3rd guy to come in and put in 1/5 of his stack against my AA. Sure he will suckout sometimes, but there are plenty of times when they can't let go of top pair or a mid overpair.

[mostman]

So Sweir - is this something you should actively try to change up during a session? Or is that kind of focus not normally seen at these levels?

That flop is why I posted the question. One of those - how could I do that!? I should have just called! moments. In all honesty though - two aces on the board - turn paired the board again - I doubt I was making much more than what I got from villain 1.

[Sweir]

[ QUOTE ]

So Sweir - is this something you should actively try to change up during a session? Or is that kind of focus not normally seen at these levels?


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really understand the question. I assume you are talking about preflop raise sizing?? If you are then just standardize your raise to 4xBig Blind + 1 per limper (or pot if you have a bet-pot button). As for standardizing preflop 3bets a good way to do it is 3x the raise when in-position and 4x the raise when OOP. That way you remain unreadable and they're also just good bet-sizes.


If that wasn't your question please be more specific.

[C4LL4W4Y]

No, just raise the same with all your 3b's.

Also don't worry about whether or not you would have made more $ from villain on this one hand.

[mostman]

I was refering to you stating that a good player will pick up on what you are doing.

So should I vary the amount of the third raise?

Edit: C4LL4W4Y answered it. Thanks.

[Sweir]

[ QUOTE ]

So should I vary the amount of the third raise.?

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said above you can vary the amount of your 3bet (third raise) but it should be independant of the strength of your hand. Raising more when OOP is fine because playing OOP is harder post-flop etc. Or you can just make a psr or whatever, OK??

[mostman]

Yep - makes sense.

[tiger_hall]

dont min raise... raise 1.5 to around 4.5... then shove seems fine to me...

[TedHastings]

Think of it this way -- when you just call, even if they figure out what you're doing and put you on AA, what do you lose? They fold but they fold to a shove anyway. I usually just call there and pray they're that stupid.

And yea the minraise is gross.