$50 NL over 200BB's deep with monster draw

[HBomb]

Guy was relatively loose over the few hands I've had with him, generally always going to showdown after I was betting on every street with top pair good kicker and he'd have some midpair good kicker or missed draw..

And not to mention is it ok here to call off stack with this big of a draw for being so deep? With 1 buyin I'd easily call it here but 2 or more made me reconsider.




Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/))

ThugNasty3: $50
banty: $79.25
CapitanPoker: $32.50
<font color="black">_2_4_0_0: $143.80</font>
R/W Ace: $118.60
Bidicha: $58.10

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> _2_4_0_0 is dealt A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 Players)
CapitanPoker folds, <font color="red">_2_4_0_0 raises to $1.50</font>, R/W Ace calls $1.50, 3 folds

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($3.75) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">_2_4_0_0 bets $2</font>, <font color="red">R/W Ace raises all-in to $117.10</font>

[kolotoure]

It really depends on if he does this with 109hh or 66 type hands

[Bramsterdam]

Withoud a read I call. You're getting excellent odds and I don't like to get fancy for 200BB versus an unknown

[HBomb]

If he does do this with 9h10h I still technically have the lead right? Not to mention the better heart draw. Anyone know the %'s on this flop if he did in fact hold 9h10h?

[All_Inn_Aces]

Instacall

[kolotoure]

It's not an instacall by any means I think it is pretty close with me leaning towards fold

[HBomb]

Of course if he reraised me on this flop instead of all in, there was no question in my mind I am reraising again and making it clear that I am willing to play for stacks at this point.

I`m usualy a big fan of big draws. However, unless you know that villain is stupid enough to do this with 2 pair I fold. Why gamble for 200bb stacks when you are a small dog to a set or a big dog to a higher straight.

remarks: Btw, this looks like a flopped straight to me, and villain probably suspects that you flopped a big hand and wants to put his money in being the favorite, since you are so deep.

[Kasane]

This deep, I don't know if I'd call. Sure, you're probably flipping for stacks, but unless you like variance...

There isn't enough in the pot for me to love a call.

If you embrace variance -- go for it.

PF -- anybody else dislike the smallish raise with a loose 220 bbs guy behind you? You gotta be raising your premiums more than the normal 4bb, which would mean a fold or more bbs for me with this UTG+1. I'd like to know. If it's more a pot sweetener, well, I almost never do those -- but if there was a case for a pot sweeten raise, I guess it would be with this hand, here.

[kolotoure]

I make it 4bb preflop but it is nothing to do with stack sizes

[barryc83]

Honestly, I hate when people use the "wait for a better spot, youll get him later" argument, but Im gonna use it here. Personally, I dont wanna be flipping for stacks 200+bb deep against this muppet. If the variance doesnt bother you, go for it. Its close either way IMO.

Also, when you would go to showdown vs him, would he be raising you or a typical station? If hes a station, I wanna fold even more.

[barryc83]

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Th 9h 272 27.47 718 72.53 0 0.00 0.275
Ah 6h 718 72.53 272 27.47 0 0.00 0.725

If he showed you that hand you gotta snapcall.

[HBomb]

Believe me, 75%-85% of my raises on any cash table are generally 4x BB's if not more if there are limpers in the hand. Some hands I just don't raise as much preflop because I don't think A6 is a great hand to be pushing hard preflop all the time... you've never seen someone raise only 3x BB's preflop with a mediocre hand?

[kolotoure]

You will get owned as you move up if you don't lose this habit

[VPIP100]

Im calling here and it aint even close.

I think his range is much much wider than a set/made straight.

Also any heartdraw, TPTK, straightdraw any overpair.

I hate variance, but I love +EV situations, and I think this is one. Results?

[HBomb]

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/))

ThugNasty3: $50
banty: $79.25
CapitanPoker: $32.50
<font color="black">_2_4_0_0: $143.80</font>
R/W Ace: $118.60
Bidicha: $58.10

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> _2_4_0_0 is dealt A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 Players)
CapitanPoker folds, <font color="red">_2_4_0_0 raises to $1.50</font>, R/W Ace calls $1.50, 3 folds

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($3.75) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">_2_4_0_0 bets $2</font>, <font color="red">R/W Ace raises all-in to $117.10</font>, _2_4_0_0 calls $115.10

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($237.95) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players - 1 All-In)

<font color="black">River:</font> ($237.95) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $237.95 ($3 Rake)

R/W Ace had 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif
_2_4_0_0 had A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (a flush, Ace high)

[HBomb]

THE NUTS BUDDY! I felt kinda bad for calling it and "donking" him, so I gave him $10 through a transfer, cuz if that was me raising with 46 there I would be PISSED lol

[kolotoure]

[ QUOTE ]
Im calling here and it aint even close.

I think his range is much much wider than a set/made straight.

Also any heartdraw, TPTK, straightdraw any overpair.

I hate variance, but I love +EV situations, and I think this is one. Results?

[/ QUOTE ]

The only heart draw I think he can ever have here is T9hh and I don't think he is ever playing an overpair like this.

Board: 8h 5h 7c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.054% 37.34% 04.72% 12567 1588.50 { Ah6h }
Hand 1: 57.946% 53.23% 04.72% 17916 1588.50 { 88-77, 55, Th9h, 96s, 64s, 96o, 64o }

are no asian ? No offense, I have only see them doing that. Give $ back.

[VPIP100]

I read HH wrong, thought that villain was the preflop raiser. (tghats what you get when you use funky names)

But I still think you should include 2 pair hands here.

[kolotoure]

I doubt 2 pair is in his range but it still isn't a call if they are.

Board: 8h 5h 7c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.404% 42.37% 03.03% 25589 1830.50 { Ah6h }
Hand 1: 54.596% 51.56% 03.03% 31140 1830.50 { 88-77, 55, Th9h, 96s, 87s, 85s, 75s, 64s, 96o, 87o, 85o, 75o, 64o }

[VPIP100]

You're right. I agree with folding then.

[kurto]

I'm glad yo sucked out on him if only to punish him for betting $117 into a $5.75 pot.

[Jw513]

You've invested $4, the pot is like $122, and to call is $115. You've got a big draw with probably ~15 outs. Why risk over 200 BB on a draw? Although he could also be on a monster draw himself, I still wouldn't do it. He could have a set or flopped straight, but thats still unlikely cuz I don't think anyone would reraise 200BB with such a strong hand. Either way, I would fold. Wait for a better spot to take the fish down.

^^^ Well those are my thoughts.. and now I can see that results have already been posted. You were drawing to 12 outs. and another 3 outs to give you a split. You won the hand, but still don't like the call.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
He could have a set or flopped straight, but thats still unlikely cuz I don't think anyone would reraise 200BB with such a strong hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

People need to get over this thinking. Some people will raise 200bb with air. Some with the nuts. And everything in between.

Just because we would never bet 200bb with the nuts (because who's gonna call it?)... some people do. You should always include that in your read.

The more apt someone is to call a massive overbet, the more likely you should do it. The villain in this case was lucky that he got a caller when he held the flop nuts. Unfortunately 1 out of 3 times he was not going to hold the nuts by the river....

[Jw513]

Yes, I definitly agree with you Kurto, I was just saying that it seemed weird for someone to reraise 200BB with only less than 10BB invested, but its always a possibility that they hold the nuts, or comeplte air.

Just wondering... why call of 200BB with a draw, knowing that your probably a big dog over 70-80% of the time.

[HBomb]

If you're not willing to gamble, don't bother on moving up, because this is exactly what they do at bigger limits. You can't win what you don't put in the pot. And he can't lose it either if you don't call.

[HBomb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He could have a set or flopped straight, but thats still unlikely cuz I don't think anyone would reraise 200BB with such a strong hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

People need to get over this thinking. Some people will raise 200bb with air. Some with the nuts. And everything in between.

Just because we would never bet 200bb with the nuts (because who's gonna call it?)... some people do. You should always include that in your read.

The more apt someone is to call a massive overbet, the more likely you should do it. The villain in this case was lucky that he got a caller when he held the flop nuts. Unfortunately 1 out of 3 times he was not going to hold the nuts by the river....

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't flop the nuts which gave me alot more outs to catch on him... let alone what the turn "could have held, like perhaps a 4 or 6, negating his made hand as it is..