NL50: The value of TPTK

[slickss]

Villain is 33/20/1.28

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $47.50
Hero: $54.50
CO: $0
Button: $81.20
SB: $22.80
BB: $131.20

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif ($4.25, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $3</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $9.5</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 6/images/graemlins/club.gif ($23.25, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $20</font>, Hero folds.

I don't like getting minraised on the flop and start thinking he is on a monster. Calling from the BB preflop, I can't see him doing this with anything I can beat.

Info on all streets, please.

[mikechops]

Good fold. Looks like you are on a trip to value town.

I'd only call if I had a read he was tilting.

[theflyingcow]

Looks fine. That c/raise + near PSB on the turn screams set.

On a hypothetical note: how would we react to a 1/2 PSB? I think I might have a hard time finding a fold since this could easily be an overplayed KQ/QJ.

[pokerg0d111]

go to go all in

[theflyingcow]

[ QUOTE ]
go to go all in

[/ QUOTE ]

Any good players have a line (and reasoning for their action) for a $10 turn bet as opposed to $20? Somehow, I doubt shoving would be the best play.

[pokerg0d111]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
go to go all in

[/ QUOTE ]

Any good players have a line (and reasoning for their action) for a $10 turn bet as opposed to $20? Somehow, I doubt shoving would be the best play.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have AQ with a Q, you gotta go all in its the right move. youll go far

[eigenvalue]

Don't call his reraise on the flop, that's terrible. Depending on reads, your image and the history of the table, fold or reraise to $25.

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't call his reraise on the flop, that's terrible. Depending on reads, your image and the history of the table, fold or reraise to $25.

[/ QUOTE ]Calling this flop and dumping on the turn is something I do at times and its probably a leak. What factors would make you reraise to $25 and what % of the time would you say you end up doing it?

Villain could make the flop raise with set/78s/AQ/air. QQ usually 3bets preflop so sets/78 have 8-11 combos and AQ has 6 combos. Not a pleasant range to be up against unless air is a big %. Looks like the right course is to fold the flop the majority of the time but then we may start to run into metagame problems.

Is anyone advocating calling flop and "reevaluating turn"...if so, what are you looking for?

[theflyingcow]

[ QUOTE ]

Is anyone advocating calling flop and "reevaluating turn"...if so, what are you looking for?

[/ QUOTE ]

This was the line I was proposing as I don't like getting c/raised off of TPTK by a hand like KQ, QJ. I can see an argument for raising here, but I'm not a fan for consideration of pot control. Against your typical NL $50 opponent, I'm not sure I want to get it all-in with just 1 pair. But I hate folding this spot too because that IMO is just waaaaaay too weak. The way OP played I thought was fine because once we called and saw the near PSB on the turn, our hand turns into an instamuck as villian's clearly trying to get our stack in the middle with a set. However, as I mentioned before, I would be extremely uncertain of how to proceed if villian fires off a 1/2 PSB. Calling down will become quite expensive as if we invest $10 on the turn, we'll almost have to call a river bet that we're not in position to block.

[Gullanian]

If you call a reraise, think to yourself are you willing to also call a pot sized bet on the next card if it's a blank? If you're not then you need to fold.

[pacman2k7]

I don't think villain with just a KJ or QJ makes a check raise here, This is a raise or fold situation, If you just call and he bets 10-15$ on turn, you have to call as Gullanian said.

So you should reraise him on flop to 25$ and fold to a push..

I would also like to see some stats about his : c/r on flop % and raise cont.bet %.

[payday]

I have definitely seen weaker hands than AQ taking this line on the flop, but would only raise if he had been getting out of line. You are at the mercy of his turn bet with not many cards that help you. I would fold to the flop raise most of the time.

I agree with pacman2k7 that some stats would help here.

[ama0330]

I fold the flop, you're behind his range on this board and you know he's going to punish you on later streets. Given his AF is pretty low and suddenly he's all over you, its looking like its going to cost you your whole stack to find out you are beat. If he's bluffing, so what? He plays well in position. I fold this flop.

Of course with histoy, I'd push if I felt I was ahead, but seeing as you have no reads, easy fold.

[slickss]

My flop bet was a little bit smaller than what was optimal, maybe. It made me look a little weak and I was sensing that just folding to the flop raise was too weak.

Couldn't he be "finding out where he was" with QJ, KQ, or AQ here? If so, am I crazy to think that he will slow down on the turn with a check? I guess this was my motivation for calling the flop and folding the turn.

[Kimo White Devil]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold the flop, you're behind his range on this board and you know he's going to punish you on later streets. Given his AF is pretty low and suddenly he's all over you, its looking like its going to cost you your whole stack to find out you are beat. If he's bluffing, so what? He plays well in position. I fold this flop.

Of course with histoy, I'd push if I felt I was ahead, but seeing as you have no reads, easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have these problems as well : not thinking multiple streets. You cant stand big bets on turn/river and that what makes this flop call really though on you. Me here I prolly do the same /images/graemlins/frown.gif Call flop, fold turn which is spew most of the time.

[poon]

hes got some loose stats but i probly still fold, most likely he has a set, straight draw or kq, I dont think ur ahead of his range very often. good fold