NL10 - Valuebetting TPTK

[lexxor]

No reads on Villain

Is this a good valuebet on the river?

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.05/$0.10 Blinds - 4 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/))

SB: $18.10
<u>BB: $10.70</u>
UTG: $9.85
<u>Hero (BTN): $13.90</u>

<font color="black"> Preflop: </font> Hero is dealt K/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red"> Hero raises to $0.40 </font>, SB folds, <font color="red"> BB raises to $0.70 </font>, <font color="red"> Hero raises to $1.50 </font>, BB calls $0.80

<font color="black"> Flop: </font> ($3.05) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red"> BB bets $0.70 </font>, <font color="red"> Hero raises to $2.10 </font>, BB calls $1.40
Uncalled bet of $0 returned to Hero

<font color="black"> Turn: </font> ($7.25) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

<font color="black"> River: </font> ($7.25) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red"> Hero bets $4 </font>, BB calls $4

[lexxor]

bump before it gets lost, because i really want to know if i can valuebet it there

[SirFelixCat]

Alright, first off, I'm trying to be more positive and such, so here goes:

Preflop: :thumbup:

Flop: Why raise? Typical WA/WB situation. In position, on a non-threatening board (read: no big draws), why not let him keep betting and hang himself? I just call his bet...


err...just saw his bet amount. Well, provided he'd made a read bet, I'd have done the same as you, but I'd have raised to AT LEAST to the size of the pot: $3.

Otherwise, I think you played it quite well. You could make a valid case to betting the turn, but with just 1 pr, I tend to play more 'pot-control', so all in all, well played and nh, sir!

[Stoneflip]

Felix, if you're not betting the turn why bet the river? If you think you're ahead on the turn why not get it in? I don't see how TPTK is a trapping hand. Villian could easily hit 2 pr on river and hero would have no way to know. Just my $.02

[corsakh]

You can, but first you need to reraise preflop and then value bet the flop.

[Waingro]

First, edit out the bit about bb calling your river bet. In a 4bet pot, eliminating QQ and AA from our opponents range is plain bad for discussion.

That said, if I hit tptk in a 4bet pot for 100 bb I don´t mind getting it all in somewhere. Raising more on the flop and betting the turn is a great way to do it.

[Stoneflip]

[ QUOTE ]
You can, but first you need to reraise preflop and then value bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm lost...isn't that what OP did ??

[lexxor]

[ QUOTE ]
You can, but first you need to reraise preflop and then value bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what i did?

[ QUOTE ]
That said, if I hit tptk in a 4bet pot for 100 bb I don´t mind getting it all in somewhere. Raising more on the flop and betting the turn is a great way to do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, i see my flop raise is wrong here like felix said: im WA/WB here, so i tryed to make pot control on the turn to take the pot small. I dont want to get my money in when im WA/WB (leak?), when seeing the river as a "blank" and no action from him i can be sure im ahead here, so i just value bet it straight forward. is my thought process wrong anywhere?

ps: sorry for my bad english /images/graemlins/wink.gif

edit: from all this post i guess i have to train more on my betsizes, esp on my raise-sizes. found a leak, yuhay!

[corsakh]

No, the OP went "I feel like raising but I dont know where I am at so why dont I put like a dollar on top and see what he does".

[SirFelixCat]

[ QUOTE ]
Felix, if you're not betting the turn why bet the river? If you think you're ahead on the turn why not get it in? I don't see how TPTK is a trapping hand. Villian could easily hit 2 pr on river and hero would have no way to know. Just my $.02

[/ QUOTE ]

We're not trying to trap. We're playing pot control as well as trying to get value out of other hands that we beat, hence we check the turn and value bet the river.

Then again, as it was pointed out to me a couple of weeks ago, if the pot is 3-bet (hopefully by us), or 4-bet, pot-control bedamned and if we hit our hand, we should be looking to get it all in with 100BB's. So, by that thinking, raise the flop as played, make a PSB on the turn and try and get it all in there.

Now, with the above being said, I HATE that line with AK here though. Realistically, I just don't see any hand we're ahead of getting it all in with us. The occassional AJ, but the majority of ppl aren't 3-betting AJ at 10NL. Therefore, I much prefer the call or raise as OP did on the flop, checking the turn for pot-control and after doing so, when villain checks to us yet again on the river (after both checking the turn), I have to feel that OP's hand is good here and will get called by weaker hands for a nice 2/3 PSB.

IOW, well played. It's villain odd bet size that throws me off on the flop though....

[KEW]

PF 4 bet is to weak make it $2.5 to $3..

I like flop and turn check...

Absent a read river value bet is very thin..

[Stoneflip]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Felix, if you're not betting the turn why bet the river? If you think you're ahead on the turn why not get it in? I don't see how TPTK is a trapping hand. Villian could easily hit 2 pr on river and hero would have no way to know. Just my $.02

[/ QUOTE ]

We're not trying to trap. We're playing pot control as well as trying to get value out of other hands that we beat, hence we check the turn and value bet the river.

Then again, as it was pointed out to me a couple of weeks ago, if the pot is 3-bet (hopefully by us), or 4-bet, pot-control bedamned and if we hit our hand, we should be looking to get it all in with 100BB's. So, by that thinking, raise the flop as played, make a PSB on the turn and try and get it all in there.

Now, with the above being said, I HATE that line with AK here though. Realistically, I just don't see any hand we're ahead of getting it all in with us. The occassional AJ, but the majority of ppl aren't 3-betting AJ at 10NL. Therefore, I much prefer the call or raise as OP did on the flop, checking the turn for pot-control and after doing so, when villain checks to us yet again on the river (after both checking the turn), I have to feel that OP's hand is good here and will get called by weaker hands for a nice 2/3 PSB.

IOW, well played. It's villain odd bet size that throws me off on the flop though....

[/ QUOTE ]

Thx for the well thought out reply.