aq

[jordiepop]

just sat down ... he called these bets really fast, i think checking here opens the door for a bluff from him should i be betting here, as played is this a fold

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
4 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 2/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($5.5, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $4.25</font>, Button calls, BB folds.

Turn: T/images/graemlins/club.gif ($14, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $8</font>, Button calls.

River: 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($30, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $22.5</font>, Hero ?

[good_gamble]

I prolly bet around $15-20 on river, as played its tough to see what he could have that beats us as I think a set/2pr would raise turn so I prolly call

[Jouster777]

Check turn then call river

As played I probably fold the river

[C4LL4W4Y]

I don't think betting the turn is bad if you're going to bet the river on a blank card (which you did not and resultantly opened yourself up for a bluff), but..

Ts completes some straight draws and adds a flush possibility out there...I'd probably check/call turn, (as he'll probably check behind with a draw) and check/call a blank river. If he calls on the turn and puts out a value bet on the river, I'm most likely folding.

As played fold river, the pot is pretty large for a one-pair hand and you don't have any reads on this opponent.

[Sweir]

[ QUOTE ]
Check turn then call river


[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. When inducing bluffs in situations like these I prefer this line because you can often get pushed off the best hand on the river if you bet turn check river. One thing to take into account though is that when checking turn, make sure that you are not giving free cards to obvious draws.

[RobAtticus]

Have to agree with the check turn/call river line. As played, the hands you should be most worried about are QT and 88. KQ and QJ are also in there, but by betting the turn hard you were setting yourself up to play a big pot with a one-pair hand which is probably not the ideal situation.

[Ace0fSpades]

I don't like the river check because you set yourself up to be bullied out of the pot with a mediocre hand. If you bet the turn, bet ~$15 on the river, or you could check the turn and lead the river if he checks behind. As played this river is a must call because you have given villain the go ahead to bet out his hand regardless of how strong he actually is.

[jordiepop]

i agree with this, if i bet and was raised than i def see a clear fold. i show serious weakness on the river, and he bets big.... i think a call is in order..

[ontiltsoon]

I like this blocking bet line.

[CaptVimes]

Check/call turn then check/call river? Hero is OOP and may not get the luxury of getting to the river for free. Checking gives us no real information on the actual strength of villain hand. I mean he could be calling down with KQ, QJ and we put ourselves in a awkward position. We want them to make the tough decision.

I would rather see a block/value bet on the river of 12-15 and try to show down cheap rather than letting button take control of the hand. One pair hands aren't good bluff catchers. As played I think you have to make the call on the river.

[catfish_01]

There seem to be alot of opponents who will attack weakness with marginal hands on the river. I like your line; I think you do need to call. Against unknowns I sometimes value bet and sometimes let them bet for me.

As for rationalizing what he could be doing this with, it's possible he puts you on AK and thinks the river check=you have OC's and double barreled with nothing. Also, some opponents get especially fond of whatever hands they have four-handed. I think you beat Qx hands here enough to be ok.

[rakes.a.beach]

As played, I think river is a clear fold.

[VPIP100]

[ QUOTE ]
As played, I think river is a clear call

[/ QUOTE ]

[rakes.a.beach]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As played, I think river is a clear call

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

What do we beat?

[danny8]

usually when a player calls really fast he has a marginal made hand. so QT+ are all pretty likely. He could also be getting stubborn with an underpair.

on the river most marginal hands would check behind. so either hes improved to 2pair+ or hes trying to push you off since you showed weakness with weaker holdings like 9T/underpair etc

i would prolly c/c turn, if he checks behind then i'd value bet the river.

as played ithink i call, just seems like hes trying to push us off our hand more than a value bet.. but i'd stille xpect to be beat a fair amount, but not enough to make it -ev /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[VPIP100]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As played, I think river is a clear call

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

What do we beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Qx with x not pairing the board, a strange busted draw or a plain bluff. I think you induced a bluff on the river.

I really like a check/call on the turn and river.

[rakes.a.beach]

[ QUOTE ]
usually when a player calls really fast he has a marginal made hand. so QT+ are all pretty likely. He could also be getting stubborn with an underpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is more of a tell. Based on betting patterns, a call is clearly -EV. Villian is checking QJ here. We only beat KQ if villian makes thin vbets. And we beat a villian floating a dry board on two streets.

[VPIP100]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
usually when a player calls really fast he has a marginal made hand. so QT+ are all pretty likely. He could also be getting stubborn with an underpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is more of a tell. Based on betting patterns, a call is clearly -EV. Villian is checking QJ here. We only beat KQ if villian makes thin vbets. And we beat a villian floating a dry board on two streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont see a hand that is beating us not raising earlier streets.

[Poker Gestalt]

[ QUOTE ]
Check turn then call river


[/ QUOTE ]

[rakes.a.beach]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As played, I think river is a clear call

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

What do we beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Qx with x not pairing the board, a strange busted draw or a plain bluff. I think you induced a bluff on the river.

I really like a check/call on the turn and river.

[/ QUOTE ]


Qx is checking the river all day.

[rakes.a.beach]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
usually when a player calls really fast he has a marginal made hand. so QT+ are all pretty likely. He could also be getting stubborn with an underpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is more of a tell. Based on betting patterns, a call is clearly -EV. Villian is checking QJ here. We only beat KQ if villian makes thin vbets. And we beat a villian floating a dry board on two streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont see a hand that is beating us not raising earlier streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty safe board for a set.

[jordiepop]

villian had 86 clubs, i felt my weak turn bet and river check was dripping weakness, and he wanted to take it away. On one hand you say dont be results oriented, but there is proof that villian will be bluffing in this spot , which was the case.