multiway middle set, can i fold this?

[skillzilla]

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/))

SB: $50.25
<u>Hero (BB): $78.88</u>
<u>UTG: $88</u>
<u>CO: $60.75</u>
BTN: $70.75

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 Players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $2</font>, CO calls $2, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.50

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($6.25) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $4</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $10</font>, Hero calls $10, <font color="red">UTG raises all-in to $82</font>, CO calls all-in for $48.75, Hero calls all-in for $66.88
Uncalled bet of $9.12 returned to UTG

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($218.76) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 Players - 3 All-In)

<font color="black">River:</font> ($218.76) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 Players - 3 All-In)

Pot Size: $218.76

[Check_The_Nuts]

If CO is decent you only beat 22. I can't fold it, maybe you can.

Should really have stats to lay down a set I think...

[MyQuil]

Go to lay this down in my opinion. Maybe UTG is shoving with A /images/graemlins/spade.gif A but the other's either got to have J J or made flush in my opinion. Calling the $10 was fair enough, but personally I couldn't call two all-ins

[thac]

I usually lead this flop, but thats a matter of tastes I guess..

I usually don't fold here ever, CO isn't gonna cold-call JJ, so he either has 22 or a flush, and we have 30% equity against a flush. UTG doesn't necessarily have to have anything (overpair with a spade, etc).. so with all the money in the middle I think you have to call.

Btw, why did you not raise at all here? Waiting for the 4th spade?

[Kimo White Devil]

I dont fold especially 3-way where there has to be dead money, sucks that you didnt fill up tho...nh

[skillzilla]

now that i look at it i cant really fold to the allin because of pot equity but what do you guys think about the flop call vs a flop cr

[thac]

Like I said earlier, I like leading this flop, but I definitely raise because you don't wanna see UTG flat call the $6 re-raise and then see a 4th spade on the turn.

[tiger_hall]

i wouldnt be calling all ins on this board.... flopped flush is possible also for CO... UTG has overpair or top set... CO has a set or flush.... i think after UTG raises all in and CO calls u are beat in this situation...

[Isura]

Easy call. You're ahead of UTG, and CO can have just like AJ or something and not the flush sometimes.

Also, WTF is with all the folding great hands in uNL and SSNL? I'm gonna make a post about this soon!

[eigenvalue]

You have to call this all-in due to pot oods, even if you would know for sure that Villain has the nut flush. You have a chance of about 1/3 to redraw to a boat! (Your chance to hit a boat are at least 1 - (41/48)*(38/47) = 0.309, they improve somewhat if you assume that the other Villain has an overpair)

Skillzilla, you need to call the 1st flop reraise in these cases. You couldn't know that the other Villain was reraising all-in, but you can't fold in this spot. Just keep calling and hope that the board pairs. You will stack any flush if that happens. This is one of the best possible spots to stack people, you can't throw your hand away for an additional 6$ bet in such a great situation!

[eigenvalue]

We are all looking forward to the "Don't fold" - post. You have over 11k posts and I think you never made a Poo-Bah post. Make this one your (very late) Poo-Bah post. I like to read them.

[kolotoure]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy call. You're ahead of UTG, and CO can have just like AJ or something and not the flush sometimes.

Also, WTF is with all the folding great hands in uNL and SSNL? I'm gonna make a post about this soon!

[/ QUOTE ]

[TheDivineRod]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy call. You're ahead of UTG, and CO can have just like AJ or something and not the flush sometimes.

Also, WTF is with all the folding great hands in uNL and SSNL? I'm gonna make a post about this soon!

[/ QUOTE ]

[RedBarracuda]

kof kof.. is this really so easy a call? .. I mean, one of them (UTG) can easily have JJ and the other guy can have made flush.. where is hero then? I mean, I am new poster here, but this doesn't seam reasonable.. I think you will lose stacks at much quicker pace than you will gain theirs..

Sorry to bust in like this.. I would appreciate if someone could clear this one for me..
Not even at micro tables have I seen people shove here like that with "nothing" and hoping to pair a board is same as chasing your own flush..

[TheDivineRod]

[ QUOTE ]
kof kof.. is this really so easy a call? .. I mean, one of them (UTG) can easily have JJ and the other guy can have made flush.. where is hero then? I mean, I am new poster here, but this doesn't seam reasonable.. I think you will lose stacks at much quicker pace than you will gain theirs..



Sorry to bust in like this.. I would appreciate if someone could clear this one for me..
Not even at micro tables have I seen people shove here like that with "nothing" and hoping to pair a board is same as chasing your own flush..

[/ QUOTE ]

He could have JJ, but you can't be scared of monsters under the bed. AA and KK with a spade are def calling here. Why play small pocket pairs if your going to fold them on the flop when you hit a set? I wouldn't fold bottom set here.

The monotone board just means you are more likely to see pairs plus a flush draw.

Edit: also "Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players"

[RedBarracuda]

I don't think its really about monsters under the bed... AA and KK with a spade are calling here, I agree... but that's just one of them.. Can we so easily assume that the other player still in the game is also beaten?

As for why playing pocket pairs and fold them on flop. I guess you are right here, but it seems that you will not fold a set on flop under any circumstances against 2 more players on any board and that might be wrong. Or is pounding a set a must every time?

[ama0330]

I fold, you beat very little here given the action.

[NSchandler]

You're getting something like 2.5:1 on a call. Even if you're up against a flush, you have odds to call. The only hand you're truly scared of is JJ.

[RedBarracuda]

yes.. looking at it now, it's a must call .. only JJ is a scare, but it's not something to be overly concerned with..
I am interested.. what are the result here?

[bober2]

I'm not sure I understand this. One of them very likely has a flush. Skillzilla is getting 2.35:1 pot odds on his last call, but his odds of making the boat or 4 of a kind are only about 3:1. Looks like he doesn't quite have the odds to make the last call assuming one of them has the flush??

[barryc83]

Folding is terrible. Especially given the way you played it, knowing both stacks go in. The only hand you dont want to see is JJ.

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Qs 615 68.11 288 31.89 0 0.00 0.681
3c 3h 272 30.12 631 69.88 0 0.00 0.301
Ks Jc 16 1.77 887 98.23 0 0.00 0.018

Youre getting 2.27:1 on the call and you are ahead on the flop a lot.

[Jouster777]

We see 5 cards, we have 7 outs on the turn and 10 outs on the river so I think it should be: 1-(40/47*36/46) = 33.4%

Barry's pokerstove came out to ~30% because he assumes one of the J outs is taken (and it is likely to be).

[spivey]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think its really about monsters under the bed... AA and KK with a spade are calling here, I agree... but that's just one of them.. Can we so easily assume that the other player still in the game is also beaten?

As for why playing pocket pairs and fold them on flop. I guess you are right here, but it seems that you will not fold a set on flop under any circumstances against 2 more players on any board and that might be wrong. Or is pounding a set a must every time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because this action is insane, and players at low levels are so weak/tight with 3 of the same suit on the flop it's ridiculous. I didn't check the pot-odds of filling up, but someone definitely has a flush and the chance that someone has JJ is about as high as it will ever be.

[Waingro]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, WTF is with all the folding great hands in uNL and SSNL? I'm gonna make a post about this soon!

[/ QUOTE ]
How about a temp ban on anybody suggesting folding a set on the flop? I think that would help the discussion.

Every once in a while you get that sick feeling when your opponents take a very goofy line that screams TOP SET. Wanting to get it allin on this flop isn´t enough to convince me. Other hands take the same line so easy call. Also, I think you should just crai first time around.

[React1oN]

If I c'd like you did I would def c/r and not just call