25: River descision vs SLAG

[TheRenaissance]

Villain is 25/16/6.
Seemed too loose for his own good.
Comments on all streets welcome.
Table was tight except villain, so preflop is very standard.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$0.10/$0.25 Blinds
6 Players
LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/)

SB: $46.70
<font color="black">SLAG (BB): $25.65</font>
UTG: $25.20
<font color="black">Ren (MP): $34.50</font>
CO: $24.65
BTN: $32.40

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Ren is dealt Thttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif 9http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Ren raises to $1</font>, 3 folds, SLAG calls $0.75

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($2.10) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2http://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
SLAG checks, <font color="red">Ren bets $1.70</font>, SLAG calls $1.70

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($5.50) Jhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (2 Players)
SLAG checks, <font color="red">Ren bets $3.70</font>, SLAG calls $3.70

<font color="black">River:</font> ($12.90) 6http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">SLAG bets $8.50</font>, Ren calls $8.50

Pot Size: $29.90 ($1.45 Rake)

[TheRenaissance]

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[TheRenaissance]

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last time

[thac]

I hate the turn bet. Check the turn and call a river bet is fine but what do you accomplish? You can't call a raise, so you're only getting value from draws but even then, they can semi-bluff raise draws, so I just don't like it.

As played I think the river is a fold.

[TheRenaissance]

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I hate the turn bet. Check the turn and call a river bet is fine but what do you accomplish? You can't call a raise, so you're only getting value from draws but even then, they can semi-bluff raise draws, so I just don't like it.

As played I think the river is a fold.

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I just couldnt believe a semiloose and aggressive villain would check call with a jack on that flop. Or anything at all that beats me. Same with the turn.

[Bramsterdam]

I don't believe an agressive villain would chase a flushdraw like this. Check/Call all the way then bet river with missed draw? Highly unlikely.

What do you beat at the river?

[corsakh]

What are you doing on the turn?!

[TheRenaissance]

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I don't believe an agressive villain would chase a flushdraw like this. Check/Call all the way then bet river with missed draw? Highly unlikely.

What do you beat at the river?

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I think it is even more unlikely to see him check call two streets with any kind of made hand whatsoever on a pretty wet, paired board.

[thac]

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I hate the turn bet. Check the turn and call a river bet is fine but what do you accomplish? You can't call a raise, so you're only getting value from draws but even then, they can semi-bluff raise draws, so I just don't like it.

As played I think the river is a fold.

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I just couldnt believe a semiloose and aggressive villain would check call with a jack on that flop. Or anything at all that beats me. Same with the turn.

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It's just that you're building a big pot and you have no idea where you stand at all. Villain can have something like KT and think you're bluffing and will keep calling you down (doesn't explain the river), or, more likely, villain has a huge hand and wants to rep a missed draw.

[TheRenaissance]

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What are you doing on the turn?!

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How would any of you play any kind of made hand on this board?

[thac]

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What are you doing on the turn?!

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How would any of you play any kind of made hand on this board?

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Check and call a river bet. Your line is so spewtastic, what do you do if he raises? It's so vulnerable. You have a small hand, play a small pot.

[corsakh]

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I just couldnt believe a semiloose and aggressive villain would check call with a jack on that flop. Or anything at all that beats me. Same with the turn.

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Sorry, I miss the logic. This is what these players do. When someone with AF of 6 bets, it can mean anything but usually hes weak. But when he calls or checks... alarm should ring in your head, this is not normal.

[TheRenaissance]

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I hate the turn bet. Check the turn and call a river bet is fine but what do you accomplish? You can't call a raise, so you're only getting value from draws but even then, they can semi-bluff raise draws, so I just don't like it.

As played I think the river is a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just couldnt believe a semiloose and aggressive villain would check call with a jack on that flop. Or anything at all that beats me. Same with the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's just that you're building a big pot and you have no idea where you stand at all. Villain can have something like KT and think you're bluffing and will keep calling you down (doesn't explain the river), or, more likely, villain has a huge hand and wants to rep a missed draw.

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This is my point.
No hand makes real sense for this villain except a missed draw.
This is why I bet turn, because I didnt think he would check call flop with a jack. When he called me again on the turn, my thinking was a ten or a draw. River there is no way in hell he has a ten.

[thac]

And you missed my last part of the sentence.

[TheRenaissance]

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What are you doing on the turn?!

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How would any of you play any kind of made hand on this board?

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Check and call a river bet. Your line is so spewtastic, what do you do if he raises? It's so vulnerable. You have a small hand, play a small pot.

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I mean if you are villain, how would you play your hand if you had a jack or a set on that fairly wet flop?

[thac]

Honestly, it depends on my image of you.. if I know you are gonna bet 2pnk on two streets when I check, I'm gonna check. I generally play a hand like QJ like this if villain is an aggressive idiot.

[TheRenaissance]

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And you missed my last part of the sentence.

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No.
Once river gets there and he bets it is a monster or a bluff, I agree.
But I just dont see him check calling with any made hand on a wet flop like that. I mean, it is possible, but I am pretty sure he would cr or lead with KJ or even JT.

I dont want to sound stubborn here. I did post this to get feedback.
My normal line with a weak made hand like this, is to do as you say, check turn behind, and call a reasonable bet on a blank river.

But I just had a feeling villain was floating/drawing given his line on the flop.

[Isura]

Weird hand. I think I like it. Doesn't seem like he would play a jack like this, and he is loose enough to have a lot of drawing hands on the turn.

[TheRenaissance]

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Honestly, it depends on my image of you.. if I know you are gonna bet 2pnk on two streets when I check, I'm gonna check. I generally play a hand like QJ like this if villain is an aggressive idiot.

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I had played 22/17 or something, fairly aggro, but nothing that would make him think I am an idiot I believe.

(not that I would mind /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[thac]

It just seems like, in my eyes, that you have the exact hand that you have when you bet this turn. I don't mind the river call at all, I just don't think I like the turn bet, ya know?

[Check_The_Nuts]

I honestly think his river play is too weird fro him to be bluffing.