50nl minraise to cbet, what's the read?

[.xxxx.]

When villain minraises you on coordinated flops like this, what're your reads on villain's possible holdings?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/))

<u>SB: $104.70</u>
<font color="black">BB: $43.95</font>
<u>Hero (UTG): $62.95</u>
CO: $17.60
BTN: $86

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt 6/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, 2 folds, SB calls $1.50, BB calls $1.25

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($5.25) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3.50</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $7</font>, BB folds, Hero calls $3.50

[MelchyBeau]

fold to raise

[kolotoure]

[ QUOTE ]
fold to raise

[/ QUOTE ]

[.xxxx.]

I understand the optimal line is to fold, but what's your read when villain makes this type of move? If I feel he's doing this with something strong I'm going to call to hit the 3 and take his stack especially because we're over 110BB's effective

[jumbojacks]

{air, set, TP, draw}

[.xxxx.]

in that order?

[MelchyBeau]

depends on the actual player. Some I have notice when they instaminraise they are on a draw. If they think then minraise, it tends to be a monster

[jumbojacks]

It really depends on the player. That's not the entire range of a player. Usually a quick min-raise is mostly air/draw.

[ QUOTE ]
If they think then minraise, it tends to be a monster

[/ QUOTE ]

I also think a lot of it has to do with their perception of you. If you're cbetting a ton, except to get played back at with a minraise or check-minraise from certain players.

[Chomp]

In order I'd say:

1. TP
2. Air/random crap not believing your cbet on a nothing flop
3. FD
4. Random good hand - 2p/set etc

[Pirelli]

I think the timing of the move tells you more than the move itself. If they tank it's a monster, if they do it instantly it's more likely to be a bluff/semi bluff.

[Kondzik]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the timing of the move tells you more than the move itself. If they tank it's a monster, if they do it instantly it's more likely to be a bluff/semi bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

[VPIP100]

Timing tells are overrated. This is a fold, you only have 3 clean outs and you are not sure if he stacks off when you hit. So fold.

[TheRenaissance]

[ QUOTE ]
When villain minraises you on coordinated flops like this, what're your reads on villain's possible holdings

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a multiway pot. People mess about less in these, and rightly so.
HU it is different, but still without a read or a strong hand(TPTK) I tend to let go. However in general I find that a flop raise means less strength than a turn raise (baluga).

In fact, we could combine all these theorems, and say that a raise signals an average hand strength proportional with street number.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j256/TradeSurplus/line_7D8389D.jpg

Strength guide
1: Preflop could be wide range of cards
2: Flop could be a draw, air, TP +
3: Turn raise = One pair no good
4: River raise is the nuts

[Chomp]

Good stuff Renaissance, and I think very useful as a rule of thumb to keep your thinking clear at the table.


**Edit to remove me saying a flaot contradicts the theory. This would be wrong as you are talking about a raise on the turn, not a c/b.

[.xxxx.]

The read I've actually started to pick up on is its either a draw or pp lower than TP if you've been agg and cbetting obv flops like this, in this hand it was 77 and I just had that he's trying to shut me down on the turn feeling and should have reraised. Great input throughout, and this gave me another idea for posting hands. I'm going to include what I'm running at along with what they're running at so we can put more of the table influence decision on how the post flop play is going.

[ADK]

easy fold imo.