Learn, Chat & Jail with the Pros: UIGEA Blasts UB/Absolute Pros!

[gaboonviper]

As I stated last January in my original Learn, Chat & Jail with the pros posts, many top pros being sponsored by the big pokersites would come under more and more pressure post UIGEA. And I stated that arrests could even be made.

Well, no arrests have been made YET but UB/Absolute are FIRING MOST OF THE PROS THEY SPONSOR!! You know...Antonio, Michael Mizrachi, Mark Seif, and the others....ALL GONE! Even Phil Hellmuth will probably no longer represent the UB brand in the US (I guess they cannot fire him beacause he is a part owner).

So the big question is WHY are they doing this? Having big name top pros endorse a site is of course a HUGE advantage in marketing a pokersite. So why just toss away this advantage?? Well no doubt they are planning to pull out of the US market as the full power of UIGEA nears. You do not just dump all of your top pros if you anticipate a positive future, do you?

Furthermore, as was reported in The Pokerbiz; "...company executives were worried that US authorities may attempt to make an example out of one of their players and arrest them..." This is exactly what I was posting almost 3 months ago!

The bottom line of all of this is that the sh*t is really starting to hit the fan. Watch for other pokersites to start dumping their pros as well. And watch for more and more big pullouts from the US as UIGEA gets stronger and stronger.

[hasugopher]

that's probably not a good thing, but doesn't sound like it's time to panic just yet.

[repulse]

This doesn't come close to implying a pullout. It only implies that these sites' assessment of the US market has worsened. An increased likelihood of some sort of new external conditions of "armageddon" (rather than voluntary pullouts) developing might make the sites' sponsorship of pros no longer a lucrative investment. And certainly, even if nothing else bad happens anytime soon, the sites' ability to use the pros in advertising has certainly become further compromised recently (the new WSOP logo restrictions are surely a factor in the big picture of a sites' advertising). Perhaps it's even just a change in social climate not directly related to the law; the "peak" of televised poker is, perhaps, passed, and the advertising value of recongizable pros is lower.

A company cutting back on advertising doesn't mean it plans on cutting back on its operations. There are plenty of sensible reasons why the companies would terminate these sponsorships. I don't see this as cause for any degree of panic, at least by itself.

[Ace0fSpades]

Oh, god! Hit the panic button! Oh, wait...it's just gaboonviper again. I'm still playing online poker, I'm still making money from online poker.

[LeapFrog]

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Oh, wait...it's just gaboonviper again.


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Well no doubt they are planning to pull out of the US market as the full power of UIGEA nears.


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Is this based on your expert analysis?


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8995433 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=8995433&Search page=3&Main=8993455&Words=gaboonviper&topic=&Searc h=true#Post8995433)

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Through my current analysis of the legislative/political poker environment I have come up with a date, 3/1/07, when I think things in the poker world will get really, really, REALLY crazy. I call this date The Armageddon Date...



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So mark it on your calendar. Etch it in your brain. 3/1/07. The Armageddon Date.


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[questions]

Most important question is, "source?"

[depokerstar]

Wow, glad to know we have f'in rocket scientists on the board. Gaboon - please post something that a 5th grader can't deduct from reading other sources. Your panic posts serve no purpose, but at least they're less frequent.

[JPFisher55]

Maybe with so few sites serving the US market, the ones still in the US market do not need to spend any serious marketing dollars on the US market. So they drop the pro endorsement deals.

[vinyard]

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Maybe with so few sites serving the US market, the ones still in the US market do not need to spend any serious marketing dollars on the US market. So they drop the pro endorsement deals.

[/ QUOTE ] Please, stop being reasonable and thinking clearly.

[questions]

A couple side questions: 1) with traffic up, why are no new sites coming online for American players; 2) does the reduced competition help explain why there are fewer and less generous bonuses?

[Palomino]

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A couple side questions: 1) with traffic up, why are no new sites coming online for American players; 2) does the reduced competition help explain why there are fewer and less generous bonuses?

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1)I think there are some sites that don't want to test the wrath of the US DOJ. Also, sites like party are publicly trade I believe so it is not in their best interests to go against the US goverment

2) This is definately the main reason for reduced bonuses IMO. A secondary reason may be that they are facing much higher fees due to having to jump through hoops to help americans get their money on and off the sites.

[mungpo]

Gaboonviper has to be a gimmick account and is no worse than those psychics that parade around claiming to know the future while talking to the dead.

[RoundGuy]

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Maybe with so few sites serving the US market, the ones still in the US market do not need to spend any serious marketing dollars on the US market. So they drop the pro endorsement deals.

[/ QUOTE ] Please, stop being reasonable and thinking clearly.

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Yeah. This is a gaboon thread, dammit -- only irrational panic and doomsday scenerios allowed.

[TreyWilly]

Anyone seen SplawnDarts?

[Jack Bando]

UB and Absolute have pros on their roster?

[Skallagrim]

If this is the best "and fire from the sky shall come down and consume you limb by limb" post that gaboon can make, that says to me that things are looking much better for poker these days.

[KinkyKid]

Gaboon,
In the future, at least include the article link before spouting your usual rhetoric. The article, from the widely respected site can be found here (http://thepokerbiz.com/professional-poker-news/absolute-pokerultimatebet-fires-grinder-hellmuth-and-others).

I'm sure there are a few ways to look at the situation. It could be that AP is looking to do an about face and shut down to the US. Unlikely I think. It could be that the pro's are a little worried about charges being filed and this is a joint decision. With the WSOP coming along, they aren't exactly low profile. Possible. AP may have decided that the people coming in due to pro's endorsing site was not worth what they were paying out. Possible.

I can't say for sure what it is. But I'm sure that more will come out in the future. So, I'm going to delay my judgement for a bit.

[JPFisher55]

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Maybe with so few sites serving the US market, the ones still in the US market do not need to spend any serious marketing dollars on the US market. So they drop the pro endorsement deals.

[/ QUOTE ] Please, stop being reasonable and thinking clearly.

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Oh OK, my bad

[gaboonviper]

Just went over to both the UB and Absolute websites. Really creepy! Zero top pros endorsing either website. No Phil Hellmuth, No Antonio, No team UB. No Mark Seif or Michael Mizrachi over at Absolute. Both sites look totally STERILE. Check them out and see for yourself.

[Palomino]

Here is what I read on another forum. This makes a lot more sense than what gaboon is saying...

Ultimate Bet and Absolute Poker are changing their marketing plans, and as a result, several well-known poker pros, including Michael Mizrachi, Mark Seif and Antonio Esfandiari, will no longer be used to promote the sites.

UB and AP are both owned by Absolute Entertainment following a merger in November 2006. Both sites, which run on different networks, have continued to allow real-money play by U.S. customers in the months following the UIGEA.

"There has been a decision to reevaluate which poker professionals we work with on each brand in the future," said a company official who asked not to be identified. "But that decision was made purely on the basis of trying to protect our ability to continue to be able to offer U.S. customers the very best in online poker."

The source said that both sites were concerned that as official spokespeople for the sites, professional poker players could become targets for the Department of Justice and their business relationships with the sites could be viewed as "aiding and abetting" Internet gambling.

Phil Hellmuth and Annie Duke, who have been part of UB since the site opened, will remain with UB to promote the brand internationally. The site will also focus on promoting the Aruba Poker Classic in the U.S. AP will focus on promoting Canadian model Serinda Swan and Internet players through its Absolute Dream package.

"The business has gone through a number of changes as a consequence of current legislation," said the AP/UB official. "It's a marketing decision so that we're free to market what we want where we want without putting a degree of risk to our business."

[coachkf]

AP and UB did not fire any of their pros. They're just not going to use them on US marketing campaigns. Serinda (AP's model chick) will be on all the USA ads.

All the pros will be marketing internationally. It makes sense. It wouldn't surprise me if the pro's asked for this so they have no worries about being arrested for promoting an online poker site.

Here's the email from AP:
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Poker Pros in US - US business as normal.

Ultimatebet and Absolute Poker remain forever committed to offering the best online poker experience to poker players in the US and the rest of the world. Both businesses have made a decision to further protect their ability to continue to offer US customers the very best in online poker.

The businesses will no longer actively use Professional Poker Players to endorse either Dotcom brands in the US domestic market, but will continue to do so Internationally. However Leading Pros such as Mark Seif, Phil Hellmuth, Annie Duke and others continue to work for Absolute Poker and UltimateBet. The marketing decision on the Dotcom Brands in the US and does not in any way affect US players.

The Pros remain committed to the business and will continue to promote both AbsolutePoker.com and Ultimatebet.com in the International market and work with AbsolutePoker.net and Ultimatebet.net.

Pros to Be Used in International Markets.

Absolute Poker and UltimateBet will continue to work with the best pros in the industry to help drive their significant Growth Strategy. Furthermore, they will look work with their current Pros and sign new Pros to work with either brand in the International Market.

Legendary Poker Pros Phil Hellmuth and Annie Duke who have worked closely with UltimateBet since its creation will continue to endorse UltimateBet.com in International Markets. Johan Storakers - Sweden's no.1 professional poker player - Jim Worth aka Krazy Kanuck are also in the current stable of UltimateBet.com Pros.

Absolute Poker who's Pros includes Mark Seif and others has just signed a 12-month deal with their beautiful host - Serinda Swan - the Face of AbsolutePoker.com. Serinda will star alongside the successful winners of the Absolute Dream package in TV, magazine and online adverts worldwide.

[sonofstev]

Hmm, notice they don't mention Mizrachi or TranquilChaos or several of the others...