TAG villain AA minraised on turn 50NL

[the machine]

this board is super dry and im known to double barrel from time to time. villain is a standard 17/12/2 ABC TAG. not really an impressive player. how do we feel about a turn bet?


Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$0.25/$0.50 Blinds
6 Players
Lego Poker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
SB: $50
BB: $50.55
<font color="black">Hero (UTG): $51.20</font>
MP: $68.40
CO: $50.60
BTN: $48.75

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif ($0.75, 6 Players)
Hero raises to $2, MP folds, CO folds, BTN folds, SB calls $1.75, BB folds

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($4.50, 2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.50, SB calls $3.50

<font color="black">Turn:</font> 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($11.50, 2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $9, SB raises to $19, Hero calls $10

ill post river action in a little while

[juanepr]

I would image a TAG would raise you on the flop with a combodraw. I would have checked behind on the turn, hoping to see a cheap showdown. (This may be considered to weak).

If your read is that he may think your are full of it, then I would push not call. I'd call if I think it gets him to check the river, so I can chek behind.

[edit: I think we are beat here quite often and may consider folding the turn. c/c, c/r line is very strong IMO]

[fees]

Obviously the deuce is unlikely, the most logical hand is something like 55, behind that 1010-kk?? 22 mmmmmmmb.. depends its a small raise, I duno what calling accomplishes, shove/fold

[Maneh]

The turn bet is standard for me;

I call here and c/c the river.

[Brian O'Nolan]

I wouldn't say it's super dry, so I like a turn bet. That is, this board is more likely to hit a villain w/ TAG stats coldcalling a raise than a 50/15 calling w/ JKo.

[the machine]

how can i check the turn when its very possible he haolds a hand like a straight draw or flush draw. only hands im really worried about are 66,55,22 i doubt he holds any 6x combo except for 65s. so if he doesnt hold one of these 4 hands he has some type of draw or overpair. we need to charge the draw and the overpair will likely pay us off too

[juanepr]

[ QUOTE ]
how can i check the turn when its very possible he haolds a hand like a straight draw or flush draw. only hands im really worried about are 66,55,22 i doubt he holds any 6x combo except for 65s. so if he doesnt hold one of these 4 hands he has some type of draw or overpair. we need to charge the draw and the overpair will likely pay us off too

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure a TAG holding flush/str8 draw calls the flop and raises the turn. Wouldn't it be opposite? I really do not like this flop for AA, so I opt for pot control over charging draws. This may be weak, like I said.

[LOwrestling2001]

baluga theorem says fold here. if villain is a true tag, he has a monster under the bed and was waiting to get your money on the turn (where the pot is bigger). We can probably eliminate overpairs here because, against a TAG, you two would've gotten it in on the flop. You are beat here almost always.

[danny8]

checking behind on the turn here is a fairly big leak IMO.

1 pairs usually no good after he min c/r you... but he could be doing something tricky with an overpair or some draw/bluff. With AA im calling here and seeing what he does on the turn. So I play it the same.

[juanepr]

[ QUOTE ]
checking behind on the turn here is a fairly big leak IMO.

1 pairs usually no good after he min c/r you... but he could be doing something tricky with an overpair or some draw/bluff. With AA im calling here and seeing what he does on the turn. So I play it the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may be right about my leak, but calling the minraise seems worse to me. He may be doing something tricky, but not often enough. I think a TAG here has a strong hand, and rarely a draw or pure bluff.

[Jamougha]

[ QUOTE ]

this board is super dry

[/ QUOTE ]

huh

[danny8]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
checking behind on the turn here is a fairly big leak IMO.

1 pairs usually no good after he min c/r you... but he could be doing something tricky with an overpair or some draw/bluff. With AA im calling here and seeing what he does on the turn. So I play it the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may be right about my leak, but calling the minraise seems worse to me. He may be doing something tricky, but not often enough. I think a TAG here has a strong hand, and rarely a draw or pure bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea i agree.. i pretty much always fold 1pair hands to turn raises.. but its so small and i have AA... guess im just not disciplined enough to fold here...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

this board is super dry

[/ QUOTE ]

huh

[/ QUOTE ]

yea I was wondering about this... its pretty damn wet!

[Brian O'Nolan]

[ QUOTE ]
We can probably eliminate overpairs here because, against a TAG, you two would've gotten it in on the flop. You are beat here almost always.

[/ QUOTE ]
There is an ~ 0% chance an ABC TAG is getting AI on this flop w/ 77-JJ. Villain's actual line would be pretty odd for an overpair, although I think you see this from 77/88 every once in a while esp. the worse villain is postflop.

[juanepr]

[ QUOTE ]

yea i agree.. i pretty much always fold 1pair hands to turn raises.. but its so small and i have AA... guess im just not disciplined enough to fold here...


[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly why villians minraise their monsters, to lure you in.

[juanepr]

can we set the river action now? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[the machine]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

this board is super dry

[/ QUOTE ]

huh

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah i dont know why i wrote that. it def has alot of draws. but what i should have written was that its void of any broadways or cards a tag villain would have for TPTKish type hands

[juanepr]

[ QUOTE ]
can we set the river action now? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

bump!

(I had a similar situation come up last night, which I will post later)

[Loc0Loc0]

Call and c/c river...

U dont want to see 56/67 but you could be facing a overpair here.

[kazana]

[ QUOTE ]
Call and c/c river...

U dont want to see 56/67 but you could be facing a overpair here.

[/ QUOTE ]
That'd be a nice stunt to c/c the river in position. Please teach me how that works.

[Bonesy]

It's hard for me to put villain on a hand with a 6 in it given his stats. But his line shows so much strength and I also doubt that a hand like TT's plays it this way. I would lean towards folding vs the ABC tag. I also don't think villain is doing this with a draw so calling and reevaluating I don't think is so bad, but I think folding is better than calling.

[the machine]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
can we set the river action now? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

bump!

(I had a similar situation come up last night, which I will post later)

[/ QUOTE ]


river villain snap shoves 25. i tank down till almost no time left and call.

[Bonesy]

These types of plays always confuse me from TAGs which I guess is the idea. I see them from time to time and wonder if I pay too much attention to numbers. One of my favorites is when a 17/4 guy raises UTG with K4s.

[jgunnip]

Are ABC tags usually calling with suited connector types out of the blinds? I haven't played in a while so I'm a little rusty. I guess villan's read on you is kind of important here. Does he know your pf range? An overpair could make sense if he knows you are capable of two-barrelling or if he didn't 3bet pf with TT-KK and puts you on a lower overpair.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Are ABC tags usually calling with suited connector types out of the blinds? I haven't played in a while so I'm a little rusty. I guess villan's read on you is kind of important here. Does he know your pf range? An overpair could make sense if he knows you are capable of two-barrelling or if he didn't 3bet pf with TT-KK and puts you on a lower overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm an abc tag (sometimes TAP) and I would call suited connectors from the blinds against a lot of opponents.

[Vyse]

I cannot give up this hand, I'm sorry. This is probably my biggest leak right now, and it just kills me.

[Check_The_Nuts]

I'll grunch your opening post.

What his range is on the turn depends entirely on what you mean by "occassionally double barrel the turn". If you've been betting flop/turn often lately, then he probably has a good hand. However, if you do this seldomly I'm less inclined to believe he would check that turn with a monster.

His hand doesn't make a lot of sense for hands you wail, like TT/JJ/QQ. This is obviously a really bad line for any of those hands, and this would lean his range more to KK+ and quads/boats. It depends a lot on how active you've been lately though, as I said above.