25NL: KJs FD on flop hits TP on turn

[C4LL4W4Y]

Turn bet is called, are we value betting the river/folding to a shove, c/c, or c/f? No reads, first 5 hands.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$0.10/$0.25 Blinds
5 Players
Lego Poker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
<font color="black">Hero (SB): $24.25</font>
BB: $32
UTG: $26.60
CO: $31.45
BTN: $41.85

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> J/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif ($0.35, 5 Players)
UTG calls $0.25, CO folds, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.15, BB checks

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif ($0.75, 3 Players)
Hero bets $0.75, BB folds, UTG calls $0.75

<font color="black">Turn:</font> K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($2.25, 2 Players)
Hero bets $1.75, UTG calls $1.75

[rakes.a.beach]

Do we get to see the river card? I'd value bet the river card most of the time.

[C4LL4W4Y]

sorry, river card is a 3s

[hunt1897]

Pot odds are a little over rated. You have put yourself in a bad position calling pre-flop. As played 3/4 pot for showdown value.

[spacetime]

Given you said river is a 3s, I still think you should vbet this...

UTG would be raising AK here (PF), and certainly on the flop because of the draws. If he is calling down with a weak Q and/or a draw, he might call a value bet. That card is pretty safe, make a 3/4 PSB and fold to aggression.

[C4LL4W4Y]

[ QUOTE ]
Pot odds are a little over rated. You have put yourself in a bad position calling pre-flop. As played 3/4 pot for showdown value.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that raising pf is ok and that folding is bad, but you really think calling the SB here w/ a drawing hand like KJs is bad? In my opinion it's tough to play OOP vs. an UTG limper against whom I have no stats.

[hunt1897]

I am a little confused, you say yourself it is tough to play OOP against UTG limper. I am saying the same thing. Did I miss something?

[DannyOcean_]

completing with KJs in the sb is 100% standard imo.

[C4LL4W4Y]

[ QUOTE ]
I am a little confused, you say yourself it is tough to play OOP against UTG limper. I am saying the same thing. Did I miss something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, but folding broadway suited connectors for half a blind is losing value IMHO.

What I meant by my post (that SC are tough to play OOP) is that raising probably isn't optimal becuase we have no info on UTG's limping range, we're building a pot with a drawing hand OOP, and we're probably not going to know where we stand if called. Better to keep the pot small.

[hunt1897]

I have "550K?" hands in PT. 99% of the people who "call" in the small blind are not winning players for that hand.

Had some preferences off. Actually, I have seen 5 data bases as big or bigger than mine. 42% of them are winning players. It is about the same in all that I have seen.

[DannyOcean_]

[ QUOTE ]
I have 300K hands in PT. 99% of the people who "call" in the small blind are not winning players for that hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

99% of players are not winning, period.

I think KJs is fine and perfect for a complete in the sb.

[rakes.a.beach]

[ QUOTE ]
I have "550K?" hands in PT. 99% of the people who "call" in the small blind are not winning players for that hand.

Had some preferences off. Actually, I have seen 5 data bases as big or bigger than mine. 42% of them are winning players. It is about the same in all that I have seen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhh. I don't have 550k on myself, but I do have 25k hands. It's not a lot of hands, but I am beating the uNL games at a decent rate. I complete in SB with any connecters. Not competing with KJs is giving up a lot of value.

[Jamougha]

lol @ folding pre

I would check the turn normally but I guess 25nl'ers will call down light so fire away.

[hunt1897]

I am not saying raising is a bad idea, just calling in that situation is a bad idea.