The Maniac, the calling station and the allin shortstack....

[kurto]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG ($81.70)
<font color="#C00000">MP ($116.60)</font>
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($68.95)</font>
SB ($68.60)
<font color="#C00000">BB ($10)</font>

MP is a maniac. He's playing 50%/30%/2.6
BB just bought in for $10 at a $50 table so we only know he's an idiot.
UTG is a calling station who was playing 71% of all flops and hitting real well.

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $1.5</font>, Hero calls $1.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $10</font>, UTG calls $9.50, MP calls $8.50, Hero calls $8.50.

Ummm... I had never been in this position before. I'm getting 4-1 here. Am I wrong here... I'm not likely to have less then 25% equity here against this group, right?

And with 2 deep stacks, there's still more implied odds.

I can't fold here ever, right? Perhaps a better question... what am I not calling with here? (closing the betting getting 4 to 1 with 2 semi deep stacks in the hand?)

[orange]

This is fine given stack sizes.

[kurto]

Bump-

I'm still curious to hear people's thoughts: what do you lay down here?

Do you call here with connectors and 1 gappers? All pocket pairs? Any 2 cards?

I'm rarely in a position where I'm closing the betting, there's a 20BB bet, 2 callers and I have position so I haven't thought about this too often.

[monkover]

I´m really interested in this too... I´ve never been in a spot like this either, must have been a pretty sweet table to play at /images/graemlins/wink.gif
Anyways, I´d play a lot of hands here. Def 99, any pp in fact any suited connector, but I´d fold hands like QJo or J10o. I don´t think they have enough equity if they´re not suited. Wouldn´t call with 1 gappers though...

[ocdscale]

Short stacker is just looking to double (quadruple) up with AK, AA, KK, QQ, (maybe AQ/JJ) etc on a rampage.
The fact that you have two deep stacks calling makes any PP an easy call for set value (Against the deep stacks)
I'm not sure how I feel about suited connectors here. You're paying a lot to see the flop with what is essentially a draw. It's a very high variance play which makes me feel uncomfortable, but with 2 deep stacked callers it's probably a good idea. Definitely no one/two gappers though.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Short stacker is just looking to double (quadruple) up with AK, AA, KK, QQ, (maybe AQ/JJ) etc on a rampage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your range for shortstackers is too tight.
I've been seeing any pp, Any ace broadway and occasionally hands like 78 or KQs.

[kurto]

It was a sweet table. Though the calling station did nicely, if you had an overpair he would call three streets with any pair.

And to see what the maniac (who was a nice guy but looking to give it away) will call down with.

Here's the results (though I hope this doesn't end the discussion on what you can play here if anyone plays looser here.)

THE RESULTS (http://www.pokerhand.org/?947429)

[kurto]

I'm still thinking about this...

Is this the kind of situation where, because its a protected pot, you can call with more speculative hands because I suspect there's a decent chance no one goes nuts here without a really strong hand. ???

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
BB just bought in for $10 at a $50 table so we only know he's an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]I do this routinely now so I guess I'm an idiot (I buy in full after I post for the SB so I have a full stack on the button). Its fun to play short stacked there and you have a lot of pushes that fold loose raises in LP or coinflip with them.

I play any PP here, SC's 67 or better, and AK

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BB just bought in for $10 at a $50 table so we only know he's an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]I do this routinely now so I guess I'm an idiot (I buy in full after I post for the SB so I have a full stack on the button). Its fun to play short stacked there and you have a lot of pushes that fold loose raises in LP or coinflip with them.

I play any PP here, SC's 67 or better, and AK

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read some of the writing about shortstacking. Since I was aware of the theory of how to play a shortstack, I've seen maybe 1 out of 100 shortstackers who actually adjust their play for shortstack play. Most of them play their normal game but still play too loose. There stacks are not larger enough for implied odds. And many of them call half their stack off but don't bother to push.

So, if only approx 1 out of 100 shorties actually adjusts for his stacksize, I feel confident assuming a shortstack is a bad player until proven otherwise.

In summary- you may not be an idiot buying in... but you are more likely to be the exception then the rule.