50NL: Got the guts to make the move?

[RunDownHouse]

Lots of times I see people respond to a hand post with remarks like, "Betting $8 into a $15 pot is too weak, bet closer to $10," or the simple, "Bet more on XX street," but I hardly ever see explanations for the comments. Another comment I see a lot - although not nearly as often - is to raise just about any two if you're the pf raiser and someone mindonks you on the flop.

I had a couple hands tonight that reminded me of both of those types of responses. In both, I had raised pf and villain was unknown. By "unknown," I mean he could have been anywhere from 18/12 to 40/10; assume villain isn't a maniac or ubernit or anything like that.

My question? If a bet of about half-pot is too weak, why? Because villain will be tempted to come over the top on a bluff we can't call, as I did/did not? If you're willing to raise mindonks with just about any two, how big of a donk are you willing to raise as well? And with how strong of a hand? The examples:

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$0.25/$0.50 Blinds
6 Players
Lego Poker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
SB: $59.50
BB: $43.55
UTG: $42.45
MP: $44.85
<font color="black">Hero (CO): $50</font>
BTN: $56.05

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> T/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif ($0.75, 6 Players)
UTG folds, MP folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, BTN folds, <font color="red">SB raises to $6.25</font>, BB folds, Hero calls $4.25

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($13, 2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $6</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $18</font>...



Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$0.25/$0.50 Blinds
6 Players
Lego Poker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh/)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
SB: $59.50
BB: $43.55
UTG: $42.45
MP: $44.85
<font color="black">Hero (CO): $50</font>
BTN: $56.05

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> A/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($0.75, 6 Players)
UTG folds, MP folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, BTN folds, SB calls, BB folds.

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif ($4.50, 2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $1.25</font>, Hero folds...

[boycalledroy]

I read no1 as a blocking bet for a flushdraw

no2 as a weak Queen.

Thats how I treat them. I don't like raising the 2nd one because of my lack of outs if we go further.

The 1st one I raise all day. If I get called obviously I try and check it down.

Maybe these are leaks!

[Steam Iron]

[ QUOTE ]
I read no1 as a blocking bet for a flushdraw



[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1 may also be KK or QQ betting to see if we have an ace; why not tell him we do? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[boycalledroy]

Sorry did't see preflop, yeah definatly a feeler bet, raise it up cowboy!

[Kasane]

hand 1 -- It does look like a premium hand didn't like the flop. A flat call almost looks as strong as a raise (do you raise AK here?). It has the advantage of needing to work less often, too. A check on the turn is often them giving up, and a 2/3 pot bet will take it down. If you see a strong bet on the turn, it'll mean he's good and knows it. Raising flop works well, too.

hand 2 -- I always raise these and immediately take a note of what they do. Usually they'll fold. When they raise it's easy to get out, and if they call you'll have a good chance of seeing the river and their weak Q or whatever. All very useful information that you'll be able to use for profit.
BTW, the closer I am to UTG the more likely I am to raise this.

Also, I fold to the donkbet from the same villain about 20-25% of the time in a long session. It lets them know that "Ah, he did have it those other times." It seems like one of those moves they do over, and over, and over, and over....

[Brian O'Nolan]

Hand 1 is a reraised pot and thus has a totally different dynamic than a standard raised pot. Your raise size is fine there because it's a lot less likely that villain has a flush draw. Also I would be a little more hesitant to call that 3bet against an unknown villain. What are you going to do when the flop comes J92r and villain leads 3/4 pot?

Hand 2 should be a fairly standard raise to $4-5 with any two. Pretty dry flop, so if you get called it's mostly by a Q. TP is more often c/c'ing or c/r'ing the flop I find. But the most important thing to remember is that these are so opponent dependent. There are definitely players that are donking into you with TPGK. Then there are players that don't really know you can bet in between 1 BB and all-in so they donk minbet with mid pair, TPTK, and sets. To just say that you should raise any donkbet on any flop with any two is spew.