NL50: Flopped the nuts in multi-way pot - how's my line?

[slickss]

What do you think of my line here? My logic is that I'm pretty sure someone has flopped a strong two pair or even a set and will call. At this level I could even get called by something as weak as AT - "top pair and nut draw".

I am wondering whether you think this is strong or just scared?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $2</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($8.25, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero is all-in $71.15</font>

[Machavelli]

My problem with the play is while you might get called by 1 opponent we should be attempting to milk all of them for bets while giving incorrect odds.

For example - if you bet $8 here and the two pair calls then the set re-raises and then you shove over the top you've just netted an additional bet and potentially gotten all in with two villains with the nuts.

[Cocopops_X]

Are you being serious here a simple raise to get some value here is your only option. There are no draws to overcome your hand apart from the board pairing and this shouldnt worry you at this point as there was no raise before you.

[slickss]

Normally I'd bet around the size of the pot here. But I felt like trying a different line - which is why I'm posting it here.

[theRoot]

I don't like this play. Since utg bet pf, you hope he has flopped a big hand too. But you also have a second opponent, who probably has a lesser hand. You don't want to give the lesser hand an easy fold. You should try to give them an opportunity to make an "expert raise" with marginal hands. You're probably making their life much too easy with an all-in bet.

Assuming you all have 100bb, more or less:
So I bet about 4/5 pot on the flop, hoping I'll get reraised. I call the reraise. If he checks the turn, I often like to underbet the pot a bit, hoping to induce a fat raise. If he bets the turn, I raise him, but not too much (a bit more if a 2 to a flush fell). Depending on the stacksizes, you can commit him (them, hopefully) to a riverbet.
When the BB gets involved, let him dictate the betting for a bit, unless his bets are too small. You do want to build a pot, of course.

I think the one thing you have to consider is that you have two opponents. You'll want to build the pot slower, in order to get the maximum $ from both the strong hands and the decent hands. You'll probably get the strong hands all-in anyway, so slow down a bit to milk a wider range of hands.

[DerrtySlime]

this hand is so stupid. wtf are you doing. this is not creative, revolutionary, or anything else you're trying to accomplish.

[Vyse]

[ QUOTE ]
this hand is so stupid. wtf are you doing. this is not creative, revolutionary, or anything else you're trying to accomplish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed 100%.

[marvin_1935]

well, you're not getting called by AT, EVER. if you put one of these guys on a set , you're getting ai anyways. AJ is folding. KQ can find a fold. you're just not getting called here, vs their range.

[PwnSauce]

ROFL AT SHOVE INTO TWO CHECKERS. I understand your logic, but I think you win more money by simply betting and getting a lot of pair+gutshot hand calling and if two pair gets aggro on you then you shove, but really you want weaker hands to call so just bet standard. We don't want to force them to make the right play and fold their top pair + draw.

[NSchandler]

Any hand that calls your AI is c/r you and calling a push anyway.

[slickss]

[ QUOTE ]
this hand is so stupid. wtf are you doing. this is not creative, revolutionary, or anything else you're trying to accomplish.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said I was reinventing the wheel. I was just trying something else and wanted feedback.

Which I did. And I agree with everything said. I'll definitely take different line next time. I'll probably just play it ABC: bet slightly below the pot size on all streets and re-raise anyone raising.

For the record: player next to act instacalled and all others instafolded. He showed AQ for two pair and hit another Q on the river.

[spyderracing]

ummmm is this a joke?

[RunDownHouse]

slickss,

My biggest problem with the hand is that no intelligent player - yes, there are some even at this level - is calling your bet. I don't think I'd call with less than a set because I can't beat anything lower than a set... and if I have bottom set, guess what? I beat only a bluff, essentially.

If you're just goofing around, having fun and making pocket change at 50NL, then moves like this can be ok. There are enough idiots that'll pay off to make your line an ok move. If you want to get better at poker and move up, you should drop it from your arsenal.

[Kasane]

This is not good. All the hands that you want to stack off to you will do that just about every time anyway. All the hands that you want in drawing next to dead will go away. There's not even a flush draw out to make 'em think you're potentially full of it.

[jimpo]

[ QUOTE ]

flop: $8.25, BB checks, UTG checks,

My logic is that I'm pretty sure someone has flopped a strong two pair or even a set and will call.


[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain your logic.

[Genz]

awfull. You'll need a really big fish to call here. And btw: if you get 20 from each of your 3 opponents, that's just like a call from 1 opponent. And a set has a good redraw against you. Sorry, but this is really bad poker. You don't give anyone a chance to hang himself. You have three streets you can use to milk three opponents. You blow it all away with one ridiculous bet.

[corsakh]

I dont think that its that bad. For instance I call in this spot if I have a good ace against a bad opponent.

[eigenvalue]

I like to overbet the pot in these spots, too. But of course not like this. Bet $12 and hope that you get 1-2 callers. This builds the pot quickly and you might earn an even bigger bet on the turn, that leaves your opponents pot commited almost every time.