Hmmmm...I get fancy, I get pwned

[EMc]

50NL, converter is more busto than matrix /images/graemlins/heart.gif


Seat 1: BTN ($29.95)
Seat 2: SB ($132.65)
Seat 3: BB ($53.70)
Seat 5: EMc tha HERO!($49.25)
Dealt to EMc tha HERO! [A /images/graemlins/spade.gif A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif]
EMc raises to $2
BB raises to $6.25
EMc calls $4.25

<font color="blue"> Hmmmm WTF am I doing here? I dont have much of a read but villain seems solid. I am shoving here about 60% of the time, 4 betting pot about 30$, calling about 10% </font>

*** FLOP *** [Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif]
BB bets $10

EMc does what? This flop sucks.

[prodonkey]

Well.. you beat T's and K's and AK and AQ lol. Put him on K's or AQ/AK and shove.

[Jouster777]

Preflop distribution seems fine but if you don't have a read/history I would usually just start standard.

Flop sucks but villain is still more likely to have AA/KK/TT than QQ/JJ/99 (same holds if you throw out TT and 99). Throw in some AK cbets and AQs any you are still nicely ahead. Not too worried about draws so I let him bet once more before pushing.

[EMc]

Yea I guess I over thought this.

[AusDerBunker]

I wouldn't call .... this board is the suck, Guessing you are ahead, but ..... also a raise might look like a move, but a cards that completes one of of the draws might make it hard for you to continue if he decides to muscle you (which I doubt), but also might kill any further action for you.

I wouldn't get fancy here.

[thegoose420]

kicking yourself for not raising more preflop

[55555]

There's too many scare cards that can hit to call. I push. If you raise and he push's, you have too much $ in to fold anyway and if he calls you still wont know where you're at. I think he can call a push with alot of worse hands here, AQ, KK, flush/straight draws, maybe even AK with a club.

[orange]

PF is fine, everyone who is saying 4-BET PF OMG are just being results oriented.

anyhoo...I raise the flop and call a shove. Or just shove yourself works as well.

[Abelardo]

[ QUOTE ]
PF is fine, everyone who is saying 4-BET PF OMG are just being results oriented.

anyhoo...I raise the flop and call a shove. Or just shove yourself works as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I was thinking just that about PF play, you got position on the 3-bettor and most likely end up with the better hand on the flop, just raising his bet or shoving look good even on that flop.

[futuredoc85]

i call preflop here 90% of the time. agree w/ orange on postflop

[matrix]

push.

You are still beating a lot of his range.

For the record I R not busto - I just have less than the min buyin in my absolute a/c and can't sit at a table /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[RMLewis]

how is 4-betting pre flop results oriented? Shouldn't you always get the most money in possible with AA?

[futuredoc85]

[ QUOTE ]
how is 4-betting pre flop results oriented? Shouldn't you always get the most money in possible with AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

what line do you think gets more value out of villains 3-bet range?

[RMLewis]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how is 4-betting pre flop results oriented? Shouldn't you always get the most money in possible with AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

what line do you think gets more value out of villains 3-bet range?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think 3-bettors have a tough time laying down to a 4th bet. When you ARE the 3-bettor with aces, it's more likely that you'll fold out standard raisers, but 3-bettors don't fold too often. Reraising 3 or 4x the 3-bet value pre flop should get calls from hands that we dominate. And who knows, maybe he'll just push, in which case, you happpily call

[futuredoc85]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how is 4-betting pre flop results oriented? Shouldn't you always get the most money in possible with AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

what line do you think gets more value out of villains 3-bet range?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think 3-bettors have a tough time laying down to a 4th bet. When you ARE the 3-bettor with aces, it's more likely that you'll fold out standard raisers, but 3-bettors don't fold too often. Reraising 3 or 4x the 3-bet value pre flop should get calls from hands that we dominate. And who knows, maybe he'll just push, in which case, you happpily call

[/ QUOTE ]

i think his range for 3-betting and then c-betting the flop is much much wider than his range for calling/pushing over a 4-bet, especially given that its 4 handed. most hands that do get it in preflop also get it in on almost any flop as well.

[AusDerBunker]

[ QUOTE ]


i think his range for 3-betting and then c-betting the flop is much much wider than his range for calling/pushing over a 4-bet, especially given that its 4 handed. most hands that do get it in preflop also get it in on almost any flop as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is just nonsense Doc .... you see AK getting it all in on a ragged flop ... ????

Stop Trolling Mate /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[kolotoure]

Futuredoc is right. I am playing it the same and raising/shoving flop

[AusDerBunker]

I kinda misread him, the get in it on flop comment I understood as most hands that will 3bet preflop will FELT it on flop

My point was this.


Sure any hand that 3bets pf, will cbet flop, but some hands will get it all in pf, that you will not get any more than a cbet from postflop. AK being one of them ... AQ AJ perhaps too ... and something like TT or similar if overcards flop.

[futuredoc85]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


i think his range for 3-betting and then c-betting the flop is much much wider than his range for calling/pushing over a 4-bet, especially given that its 4 handed. most hands that do get it in preflop also get it in on almost any flop as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is just nonsense Doc .... you see AK getting it all in on a ragged flop ... ????

Stop Trolling Mate /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

i said MOST hands. and i think the added value from the extra hands that c-bet the flop but would have folded preflop more than makes up for the 1 hand he might or might not have gotten it in preflop with that he now folds on the flop

[futuredoc85]

[ QUOTE ]
I kinda misread him, the get in it on flop comment I understood as most hands that will 3bet preflop will FELT it on flop

My point was this.


Sure any hand that 3bets pf, will cbet flop, but some hands will get it all in pf, that you will not get any more than a cbet from postflop. AK being one of them ... AQ AJ perhaps too ... and something like TT or similar if overcards flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

this aint party poker yo

[kaz2107]

no read on villian i am shovin here. i havent seen too many unknowns 3betting light thus i think he has JJ+ and AK. shove it in preflop and make him fold his big hand (he wont b able to fold much imo)

as played i pot the flop and call a shove as there are still lots of hands we r well ahead of.

[AusDerBunker]

[ QUOTE ]

this aint party poker yo

[/ QUOTE ]


Blah ... I am tired of this line, party party party ... No responsebility for own action, the euros have it easy, they have party .... etc etc. Let's face it uNL is easy on all sites.


As played, I in one of the first posts above also advocated raising flop ... but that is a different matter /images/graemlins/smile.gif