50NL 6max: Flopped straight multiway...now what?

[TheDailyLlama]

Table is fairly loose but short of containing any maniacs. Have made money by people calling/chasing fairly loose post flop.

Hand in question I call PF from the button to see a multiway pot. Pretty great flop for me but everyone proceeds to show some interest.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $33.50
UTG+1: $50.75
CO: $50
Hero: $89.20
SB: $55.65
BB: $124.20

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif ($2.25, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $2.25</font>, UTG calls, CO calls, Hero?


Whats my best play here?
Theres so many cards I don't want to see on the turn so should I raise to take it down now, in which case how much?
Raise a callable amount to keep at least 1-2 people in the hand?
Or call and see whether or not the turn brings a scare card, then decide from there?

[SCBielski]

I'd make it $6 or so to go because the board is so draw heavy. Also, be careful; you have the butt end of the straight.

[mathemagician54]

raise to 8 or so, there are a lot of cards you don't want to see.

[TheDailyLlama]

I was pretty sure no-one had KQ here and that my hand was best after the flop, but very vulnerable.

Can I ask why you would make it $6 to go? Build the pot whilst we're ahead but not commit too much before we see the turn? I don't think $6 will fold anyone and we'd still be 4-way and scared of any 8, 9, 10, J, Q, K or /images/graemlins/spade.gif on the turn

[ciki57]

Make a BIG raise. BB is pretty deep and you don't want to give him any odds to draw to a flush or higher straight.

I would say you must raise at least to 16$.

[mathemagician54]

if you make it 6 to go, pot is $10.5 by the time it gerts to BB. He has to call 3.75, and given that UTG cold called its unlikely he'll rr, so he can call this pretty safely if hes drawing. Then once BB calls, UTG can call with better odds. Point is, make it more so you can make it incorrect for them to draw, and probablly play HU

[NSchandler]

I'm raising this to $13. A spade, K, Q, J, T, 9, 8, or 7 leaves you in a precarious position on the turn. I have no problem with just taking the pot down right now.

Edit: Just saw the stack sizes of you and BB. With this in mind, I wouldn't mind a raise to $14 or $15.

[Stronghands]

I'm an advocate of just calling and waiting for a safe turn to jam the board.

You've said the table is loose, so you cannot rule out hands like Q8, plus anybody who has a combo draw, like QJss will likely re-raise you all in AND be at least even money to win - the callers trapped in the middle more than justify the play.

Since these players make the mistake of going too far with their hands, there is no point in trying to price them out of the turn. You're only increasing your variance; on the other hand, you can save that bet for the turn where they will probably still call, and be making an even bigger mistake with only 1 card to come.

[Vyse]

[ QUOTE ]
Make a BIG raise. BB is pretty deep and you don't want to give him any odds to draw to a flush or higher straight.

I would say you must raise at least to 16$.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep

[mathemagician54]

$16 is a ginormous overbet, it's probable you have the best hand... you want worse hands to call. Pot size raise is fine, or a little bit more. You want to play it HU really bc of so many scare cards.

[ciki57]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm an advocate of just calling and waiting for a safe turn to jam the board.



[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, i guess this is OK too. But I think big raise is the best, since it may also induce an all in form a set or str8 flush draw.

Raise to something like 8 or 6 is the worst IMO, beacuse it has no folding equity here.

[SirFelixCat]

W/o reading responses, I'm making it AT LEAST $12 to go at this point. I don't think $15 or $16 is bad either. Damn near half the deck on the turn has you wondering, so by making it at least $12, you're giving the wrong odds for any draw to continue, save for maybe an oesfd.

Seems fairly straight forward to me....

[NSchandler]

[ QUOTE ]
$16 is a ginormous overbet, it's probable you have the best hand... you want worse hands to call. Pot size raise is fine, or a little bit more. You want to play it HU really bc of so many scare cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

A PSR is to $13.50 here, so $16 isn't that much of an overbet.

[mathemagician54]

how are you calculating PSR? i thought pot is 6.5, raise is 6.75, raise is 2.25, so $9.

if it's 13.5, then i have no problem with that then.

[Machavelli]

I pop this to 12 or 13. We have the sucker end of the straight and I'd rather take it down here than have two people call and see a K, Q, or spade hit.

[TheDailyLlama]

Thanks for the responses.

Seems the general consensus is a raise between $12-14. I was tempted to call and evaluate turn but we want our opponents to make mistakes by calling with poor odds when they are behind so I made it $10 to go, which as I now know was actually too low. BB had to call $7.75 to win $19. I think this gives him ok odds with a normal or combo draw, so I should have made it more. Once BB called other 2 villains also called, getting even better odds of course.

Turn card and action made it an easy fold

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $33.50
UTG+1: $50.75
CO: $50
Hero: $89.20
SB: $55.65
BB: $124.20

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif ($2.25, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $2.25</font>, UTG calls, CO calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $10</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

Turn: 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($42.25, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $42.25</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG calls all-in $23</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO calls all-in $39.5</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $2.75 returned to BB.

River: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($144.25, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $111.25, Sidepot 1: $33)


Results:
Final pot: $144.25
<font color="#ffffff">BB showed Qs 5s</font>
<font color="#ffffff">UTG showed Ks 6s</font>
<font color="#ffffff">CO showed Qc Td</font>

[NSchandler]

[ QUOTE ]
how are you calculating PSR? i thought pot is 6.5, raise is 6.75, raise is 2.25, so $9.

if it's 13.5, then i have no problem with that then.

[/ QUOTE ]

A pot-sized bet gives your opponent 2:1 odds. Pot was $2.25 + $2.25 (BB bet) + $4.50 (2 calls) + $2.25 for your own call (even though you're rasing, think of it kind of as a string bet, i.e. i call $2.25 plus raise you another $x). This makes the pot $11.25 before considering any raise you put in. So, you need to raise it to $13.50 so that your opponent has to call an additional $11.25 (he already put $2.25 in this street).

[kayfish77]

i think i make it 15ish and snapcall if someone pushes. literally 1/2 the deck is a terrible card for you or people calling down. its so drawy and theres like 10 bucks in a limped pot just take it down now. as played turn was prob an instafold. to be fair the person with q5 spades wasnt going anywehre no matter what in retarded results oriented logic.

[mathemagician54]

ok, thanks schandler