25 USD - Wee I'm making monies now. How did I play this one?

[K䲰䮥n]

Comments on the preflop call (would you prefer a raise?) and the flop bet (would you prefer a c/r even with the two /images/graemlins/club.gifs?), thank you.

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $25.57
UTG+1: $25.95
CO: $9.35
Button: $42.20
SB: $23.08
Hero: $25

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $0.75</font>, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls $0.5 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $3.25)</font>.

Flop: 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif ($3.75, 5 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $3.6</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $7.2</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $10.8</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO calls all-in $1.4</font>.

[kayfish77]

preflop is bad. you dont want to play a 4 way pot with JJ especially oop, repop to atleast 3. checking the flop probably isnt good because theres no guarantee someone who made a smaller than pot preflop raise is going to cbet into 3 others on a draw heavy board and basically half the deck is a scare card for you and others. any club and any broadway either kills your action or your hand.

[Vyse]

I reraise PF

[Triggerle]

I 3bet this pre-flop. In addition to a 3bet being for value as you likely have the best hand it makes the rest of the hand easier to play if you don't flop a set.

With everybody and their dog calling pre-flop I don't mind the call much either because you can play for set value almost on pot odds alone. You will have to work with very little information post-flop if you don't set up.

On the flop I would go for a check-raise only if I'm fairly certain UTG+1 will follow up with a continuation bet.

[Skleice]

BIG Reraise preflop. Did you really want to play this hand against 4 opponents out of position? You'll also find out what you're up against from the original raiser.

[K䲰䮥n]

[ QUOTE ]
BIG Reraise preflop. Did you really want to play this hand against 4 opponents out of position? You'll also find out what you're up against from the original raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I reraise this PF wont I be likely yo play a big pot OOP?

[Skleice]

Your JJ stands better against 1 opp then 4. But I see what you are saying about keeping the pot small. However, I think you have to reraise to get the riff raff out. You could hopefully take it down, or at least limit the field to 1.

[qwertyui9]

I'd raise this preflop and get any junk hands out. As played I love leading this flop for more than the pot. Charges a big price on such a draw heavy board and you'l get action of an ace here a lot of the time

[Knight Vision]

I play it the same. PF is only question, but you can expect at least one call (probably more because the odds for callers get better as it goes around the table mind you) and you'll be first to act no matter what. So, if you raise you get a bunch of callers and any A, K, or Q sucks.

God forbid you raise and get re-raised PF, cuz now you'll have a tough call decision against an unknown PF-raiser or call/raiser.

Set value at this point looks great.

On the flop, I lead for sure.

QQ is a raise.

[catfish_01]

If you're JUST calling PF it almost seems like you are ONLY playing for set value; against a pfr who you don't have a read on and 3 opponents, can you really make money if you don't flop a set? That said, if that's how you're willing to play the flop, seems fine. You can avoid tough decisions like that.

But 3-betting seems to maximize the value from the hand. If you are four-bet strong by someone with a full stack it seems like a comfortable fold. The scary big pot on the flop will indeed put you in a tricky situation depending on how the pf play had progressed, but again, it still seems better overall.

[BishopsFinger]

definitely rr pf - other than that its all standard.

[boycalledroy]

I like the OP line here. If you reraise this and the flop comes with an A high you are not winning the pot oh-so-never. With so mnay people and a poor position I am playing for set value every time here!

[KreellKeiser]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the OP line here. If you reraise this and the flop comes with an A high you are not winning the pot oh-so-never. With so mnay people and a poor position I am playing for set value every time here!

[/ QUOTE ]

No, no, no, no, no. Reraise preflop. Flop comes A high without a J, well, [censored] happens, but being scared what will come on the flop is a terrible reason to not reraise.

[Supwithbates]

calling here is fine and is in fact optimal at many tables. You're not failing to reraise because you're afraid an ace will flop; you're not reraising because you're afraid of creating a big pot OOP against an unknown villain with a hand that won't like half the flops it sees. And what happens if he calls your raise? What information have we gotten? If the flop comes ten high, you cbet and he calls, what's your plan for the turn? We can't even be THAT confident OOP against someone calling our reraise even if the turn blanks, once our flop bet is called.

I find that reraising OOP at many of these tables is throwing money away because generally I lose big pots or win small ones. Reverse implied odds can easily apply even if you have the lead, because a passive opponent can simply call you down, or start getting aggressive as soon as you stop betting and you'll have no idea what kind of hand he has. Did he flop a set? Does he have a higher overpair? Is he floating?

[tiger_hall]

reraise pre flop with JJ... i wud bet on the flop... if i get a caller and there is no draws that could be dangerous for my opponents cards then i send a weakish bet on the turn hoping to be raised or at least called without scaring them off.. ... raise 3X more make them pay to see more cards

[draw2aflush]

well played change nothing

[Triggerle]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the OP line here. If you reraise this and the flop comes with an A high you are not winning the pot oh-so-never. With so mnay people and a poor position I am playing for set value every time here!

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. If you 3bet you won't have six people in the pot. Usually it will be HU and villian will be as scared by the A as you and you can take down 66% of A-high flops with a cbet. Since the question really only is if villian has an A you can also adjust your cbet down a little so you lose less the times he has an A.

As i said above I'm not entirely opposed to just calling and playing for set value but you shouldn't do it for the wrong reasons.

[AusDerBunker]

[ QUOTE ]


If I reraise this PF wont I be likely yo play a big pot OOP?

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to 3 bet too ... else you are more or less playing for setvalue.

A 3bet usually blows people away, so you will get it HU, then cbet slightly over half pot and if you get a bad read, get away there .... a 30-40bb pot is not considered that big.

To take an example: It is fairly common to do a decent bit of 3betting from the blinds if you have a loose raisor in late position, and you will always see that 3,5 timis initial raise 3bet pf then 1/2-2/3 pot cbet on flop pattern


Oh ... and btw, yes going broke with KK pf is always right, sure they will show you AA once in a while, but since AK and QQ are also in their RANGE you are making a nice profit in the long run /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Get Pokerstove !

[draw2aflush]

Because you are in the BB it is better to just call.

Let's start off by reviewing the raise preflop.

No need to go into raise amounts because we know that a small raise will get the initial raiser to call and then everyone behind has come along getting the correct odds and your OOP and you know the rest.

1.If you raise the correct amount, you only have better or big hands call.

2.Being OOP you have created reversed implied odds post flop

Now let's look at the call.

1.You have hidden your hand strength.

2.Raising does not do much to reduce the field unless you raise large and then you could still be in trouble, not worth the risk in this spot.

3.Easy to fold if the flop is ugly for you.