I fold trips

[Fiksdal]

Full Tilt Poker
$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
6 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
Hero (SB): $9.85
BB: $9.85
UTG: $9.60
MP: $15.35
CO: $11.35
BTN: $5.15

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> 6http://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif Ahttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif ($0.15, 6 players)
UTG calls $0.10, MP folds, CO calls $0.10, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.05, BB checks

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 3http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif Ahttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($0.4, 4 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $0.40</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $1.60</font>, UTG folds, CO folds, Hero calls $1.20

<font color="black">Turn:</font> 3http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif Ahttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif [K/images/graemlins/spade.gif] ($3.6, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BB bets $3.60</font>, Hero folds

Discuss.

[thac]

If you're gonna fold to a blank turn, you may as well fold the flop. AK was already beating you so the turn changed nothing.

[Genz]

Why do you do this? Any details about villain? I don't like it. I call down.

[Fiksdal]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you do this? Any details about villain? I don't like it. I call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why, because "ZOMG we have trips?" Does villain ever raise with other hands than an ace?

[Genz]

On 10NL? Yes. Any PP probably.

[creamfillin]

[ QUOTE ]
Why, because "ZOMG we have trips?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes

[Fiksdal]

I think that is a big general misunderstanding. Most of the fishies on this level are not agressive like that, they are more loose/passives. They will indeed call down pretty wide in a lot of situations. However, when they actually get agressive like this, it usually means a hand IMO.

[thac]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that is a big general misunderstanding. Most of the fishies on this level are not agressive like that, they are more loose/passives. They will indeed call down pretty wide in a lot of situations. However, when they actually get agressive like this, it usually means a hand IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please comment on my first reply. I'm curious as to why you called the flop and folded a safe turn.

[Genz]

When I played 10NL there last month, I thought they were mostly lagtards who will push with K2o here. Seriously. When I started calling more, I was amazed about how much these guys love to bluff. But I wasn't there and see how the session developed.

[Fiksdal]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think that is a big general misunderstanding. Most of the fishies on this level are not agressive like that, they are more loose/passives. They will indeed call down pretty wide in a lot of situations. However, when they actually get agressive like this, it usually means a hand IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please comment on my first reply. I'm curious as to why you called the flop and folded a safe turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because ZOMG I had trips /images/graemlins/smile.gif

But I get your reasoning, that was probably not a good idea.

Don't you guys think we'll usually have to put the rest of our stack here to see a showdown though?

[Fiksdal]

[ QUOTE ]
When I played 10NL there last month, I thought they were mostly lagtards who will push with K2o here. Seriously. When I started calling more, I was amazed about how much these guys love to bluff. But I wasn't there and see how the session developed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which site did you play on?

[Genz]

Yes. And I think I have the best hand here often enough to do it. But I only do it against the usual FTP 40/25/4 player. Not against the 17/6/1.8.

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
On 10NL? Yes. Any PP probably.

[/ QUOTE ]Plus, given the preflop action if villain has an A we should expect it to be AT or worse. If we assume its not A3 then we have 14 outs to win or chop when he has AT, 26 outs to win or chop when he has A7, and obviously we are very likely to chop or win when he has A2/A4/A5.

I don't like the spot and if we know he has an A its an EV- line but I'll call it down given the wider range.

[Fiksdal]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. And I think I have the best hand here often enough to do it. But I only do it against the usual FTP 40/25/4 player. Not against the 17/6/1.8.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's assume villain has a pocket pair a fair portion of the time.

I assume we are calling the turn, and check/calling the river?

When villain has an ace we get stacked.

When villain has a pocket pair he checks behind with his showdown value on the river, and we don't get to stack him.

Get my drift?

[RickA]

I agree with this line moreso than he is raising with a non A.

[Angrymoog]

I have to agree with Thac. If you call the flop raise then fold the turn, you should just fold to his raise on the flop.

I think you called because you had an idea he might raise something other than an Ace. If thats the case, you should continue calling.

[Fiksdal]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you called because you had an idea he might raise something other than an Ace. If thats the case, you should continue calling.


[/ QUOTE ]

Calling the flop was probably a mistake IMO. I can't really see villain raising a pocket pair. That's just me though, I am here to learn.

[Genz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes. And I think I have the best hand here often enough to do it. But I only do it against the usual FTP 40/25/4 player. Not against the 17/6/1.8.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's assume villain has a pocket pair a fair portion of the time.

I assume we are calling the turn, and check/calling the river?

When villain has an ace we get stacked.

When villain has a pocket pair he checks behind with his showdown value on the river, and we don't get to stack him.

Get my drift?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, my personal experience with FTP's 10NL is that I push this turn and be probably best. If villain is actually playing tightly, a fold certainly isn't terrible. You didn't provide any details about villain so it is hard to put him on a hand. He's certainly repping an A. But he could be on a flushdraw just as much if he is aggressive enough.

[Angrymoog]

[ QUOTE ]

Calling the flop was probably a mistake IMO. I can't really see villain raising a pocket pair. That's just me though, I am here to learn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure you had a better feel of the situation than any of us. Having just moved up from NL10 (and spending a fair number of hands there) I do agree that most players at this level do not get aggressive without strong hands. However, the players do tend to get more out of line on the flop than any other street, and I have indeed called for stacks in situations where I figured the only logical hands opponent could have beat me, to discover they had made some crazy play with a pocket pair. The fact that this is a paired board makes it more likely hes getting out of line.

[bsheck]

Calling the flop and seeing if the guy fires the turn has some merit IMO.

[ama0330]

I hate to fold this but youre not beating much.

[mr_npiv]

[ QUOTE ]
Why, because "ZOMG we have trips?" Does villain ever raise with other hands than an ace?

[/ QUOTE ]

sure they do. And even if your kicker isnt great, the King has just made it a split pot. I really don't like this play, very nitty.

Call down ! reraise!

[RollTide77]

He limped in so I doubt he has KK or AK. I would RR somewhere. I'm not folding trip Aces without making someone prove they have me beat.

[Bramsterdam]

What kicker would be sufficient to play for stacks here? I don't see any difference between A6 and A9 for example.

Yesterday I found myself in the same situation except for the fact that I was holding AQ. Villain held a small pocket pair which turned into a boat by the way. (No bad beat story whatsoever).

So I found AQ definately good enough to play for stacks, but what is borderline? AT? Maybe even AJ?

[RollTide77]

[ QUOTE ]
What kicker would be sufficient to play for stacks here? I don't see any difference between A6 and A9 for example.

[/ QUOTE ]Well if you had AT+ you would be raising PF so anyone who called that you could remotely put on a decent hand. Then if you bet the flop a good sized amount and got a call then the turn would be tough when the K hits. In THAT situation I wouldn't want to play for stacks if I had AQ for example. I'd just hope to call it down and keep the pot small. But if I had limped in A-rag then I would want to put some pressure on and fish out the better kickers and get folds out of Qs and Ks. If I had A6 they could just as easily have A2-5 as A7-9. But if I got a good call on the flop and turn then I would definitely consider folding to any large river bet.

[matrix]

flop call + turn fold is OK I think.

A good chunk of villains will raise this flop as a bluff and then shutdown.

as played Turn fold is goot. He is telling us he has an Ace.

we beat A2 A4 A5 - lose to 8 kickers and split with one.

I want A9 to continue here as it beats 6 kickers and loses to 5 it's a unraised pot so Ace anything is likely.

There's also the ~12:1 shot that we call the flop and spike a boat or the very slim chance of making quads - and if either of those happen hello valuetown. Combine that with the chance he is bluffing the flop and I think the flop call is OK (if a little thin owing to stack sizes)