Common TPTK situation (imaginary hand)

[sebbb]

Imaginary hand:


***************
UTG+1 limps, hero raises from the button with AQo, everyone folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop comes Q84 (no flush draws) Pot=about 11 bb
UTG+1 checks, <font color="red">Hero ???? </font>

Effective stacks: 100bb

*******************

Villain is not a calling station, most of the time he will fold to a bet on the flop if he has less than top pair.

What % of the time do you bet, what % do you check? What are the advantages of each?

The reason I am asking this is because I always bet, and I feel I could get more value by checking sometimes.

Same question if you are OOP on the flop (you raised pf and got called)

Thanks

[VPIP100]

I raise about 90% and check behind around 10%, he would call if he has top pair, and we need to get value out of that, a scarecard could destroy your action.

[danny8]

since you're prolly raising and c-betting in this exact situation very often, you can cbet here.

You're likely to get called by any PP + get value from QT/QJ/QK... If you get to showdown then they'll prolly start giving your cbets more respect - allowing you to raise pf more profitably

[FreddyT87]

you can not start to check the good hands and bet the weak hands. this is suspicious. the continuation bet is so powerful because villans can not see the effective strenght of your hand just because you bet it every time heads-up.

[Pokey]

I will bet this 100% of the time.

If villain has no hand, he's not calling. So be it -- it's not like a villain with NPNK is going to pay off like a slot machine if I check behind. I give up extremely little value and grab a pot before things turn ugly.

If villain has second pair or top pair with no kicker, he'll likely pay off bets. These value bets are extremely lucrative, and I will not walk away from them. Our bread-and-butter is getting bad villains to pay off with second-best hands; why pass up the opportunity?

If villain has a weak draw (76s for an straight draw, JT for an inside straight draw, AK for overcards) he might pay off a bet in the hopes of hitting lucky on the turn. Why offer infinite odds to outdraw me when I can offer crappy odds and get paid?

If villain check-raises us, we then need to decide what we're facing: is this a villain who is aggressively trying to steal with garbage or is this a villain who hit solidly (set or an incredibly unlikely two pair) who is now trying to get us to pay off? At these stakes, a check-raise is most likely to be a monster, and I think folding is the correct move most of the time. Note that we actually lose nothing from this check-raise: if we had checked behind, villain would have led the turn and we'd have called. We might even have called a river bet, unknowingly paying off a set even more than we would have if we'd just bet the flop and folded to a raise.

Perhaps the best reason to bet this flop is that we're going to miss flops twice as often as we'll hit them. If our natural inclination is to check when we hit, then an observant opponent (yes, they do exist) will recognize this tendency and start picking off our c-bets. Since c-bets are the road to riches, we'd rather not have them look obvious. We bet the made hands on the flop so as to get more respect for our continuation bets when we have air. Even if villain folds every time that we bet the flop with TPTK that's fine -- it just means he's going to fold to all our c-bets too, and that's money in our pockets.

[sebbb]

Well advantages to check behind would be:

- could induce a bluff
- underrepresents your hand, villain might call a turn bet more easily
- protects you against a monster or bluff
- avoid losing cbet karma if you had cbet and villain folded

Advantages of raising:

- get value from other TP hands
- get value from opponent who thinks you're cbetting too frequently and calls lightly
- get more respect from cbets if you see a showdown


What do you think? Of course I'm not saying check everytime but maybe mix it up a bit?

[sebbb]

thanks for the reply pokey

[Leviathan101]

I bet everytime. They check to me, I make them pay to see another card. Plus I have a loose image, and get floated a ton here. I almost never check behind where I flop TPTK or better, and I would c-bet this flop everytime as well. If I c-bet it, I bet it.

nice post pokey