0.25/.50 NLHE- Trips on flop, pot committed

[Shrooma]

Please provide comment on the following situation. Both are more or less loose agressive (and >40% saw flop).

Full Tilt Poker
$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
5 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
BTN: $24.30
SB: $48.75
Hero (BB): $72.1
UTG: $20.90
CO: $46.75

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($0.75, 5 players)
UTG folds, CO folds, BTN calls $0.50, SB calls $0.25, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, BTN calls $1.50, SB calls $1.50

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($6, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $2</font>, BTN calls $2, <font color="red">SB raises to $8</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $22</font>, BTN calls $20, <font color="red">SB raises all in to $47</font>

[prodonkey]

I'm folding when you pry it out of my cold dead fingers... button is obviously going all in.. if SB flopped straight you're still getting like 2.5:1 due to buttons money. SB could easily have QT JT 9T, JJ, 99, AT

[losingdonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm folding when you pry it out of my cold dead fingers

[/ QUOTE ]

[Loc0Loc0]

Pot odds? The pot is like 100 $ assuming BB would call his last $4....
Your getting 5 to 1 odds. Need to win % 16,67%.

You hit your boat(4o/aK) way more often. So its an easy call right?

You should better Bet bigger on the flop 4/5 so you can shove a raise??? /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

HEro raises to $72.1

[prodonkey]

Yes

[Shrooma]

I usually would'nt bet that low on the flop, but I knew for sure someone would raise it. This would be an easy call regarding pot odds and about 30% chance to fill up, right?

[Shrooma]

Not really worth a discussion, this is what happened:

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
BTN: $24.30
SB: $48.75
Hero (BB): $72.1
UTG: $20.90
CO: $46.75

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($0.75, 5 players)
UTG folds, CO folds, BTN calls $0.50, SB calls $0.25, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, BTN calls $1.50, SB calls $1.50

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($6, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $2</font>, BTN calls $2, <font color="red">SB raises to $8</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $22</font>, BTN calls $20, <font color="red">SB raises all in to $47</font>, Hero calls $25, BTN calls all in for $0.30

<font color="black">Turn:</font> 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif [2/images/graemlins/club.gif] ($122.3, 3 players)
No action

<font color="black">River:</font> 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif [A/images/graemlins/heart.gif] ($122.3, 3 players)
No action

<font color="black">Results:</font>
BTN had K/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (a straight, Ace high) and won $34.95
SB had K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (a straight, Ace high) and won $84.35
Hero had Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (three of a kind, Queens)
Final Pot: $119.30 ($3.00 rake)

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
Not really worth a discussion

[/ QUOTE ]
Your final call was EV=$19 so the call is a nobrainer even if they had turned their cards over before you made that call.

[Trae3ab]

That flop is horrible, that board sucks for a set. The pot wasn't big enough for this to happen. With the in between caller you should know you are beat from the play on the flop. You probably knew you were beat, but if you have pure outs you had 7 on the flop and 10 on the turn to fill up, granted pot odds are there to call, you are drawing to 10 or less outs with two cards to come. I think pot control was misappropriated here. With a board like that, there is a fine line. With that call from the button and reraise, I am looking to fill up while keeping my buy in. Protect your stack not your hand.

If you just call the $8, you would get to really see where the button is. Granted I don't think he is smoothing calling.

You seem like you got ahead of yourself and were maybe hoping someone had two pair and a draw, I don't know. It just doesn't seem well thought out.


The preflop play could have been better with being last to act with a vulnerable hand like QQ. Atleast, get the SB out of there and go broke with your set in a heads up situation. It just seems like there was a lack of control.

The pot odds IMO are a little skewed because you are three handed also.

[prodonkey]

LOL, so you're saying the pot odds are there.. but you'd rather protect your stack? That's what a bankroll is for.

[Zagga]

[ QUOTE ]
Protect your stack not your hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't play cash games like a tournament. There is no such thing as "defending your stack in cash games", "only building your bankroll". If you don't have enough bankroll to cover losses then go to a lower stake.

In cash-games, if a call/raise is +EV it is correct to make it, this is clearly such an example because you are well ahead of the villain\s ranges and have plenty of outs when behind. Going all in here is a no-brainer.

[Trae3ab]

I'm not suggesting a fold or a contesting the all in.

I'm saying that this hand was misplayed preflop. And a three way all in could have been avoided, very frantic play on the flop for such a small pot.

The odds are skewed because it is a three way all in. Your edge isn't as big as you think it is.


Protecting your stack is important regardless if its ring or tourney. Obviously more prevailant in a tourney.

[prodonkey]

How was it misplayed prelfop? He should have raised to $3. I don't really call that misplaying it.

[Trae3ab]

I don't think the SB can peel given the odds with K 10 out of position.

QQ is such a vulnerable hand in position. I would have made it more expensive from the big blind personally. The $2 bet is a pot builder at best. I feel that out of position I want to take it there or be ateast heads up on the flop.

I would feel better about a $3-$4 bet. Get that small blind out of there with a marginal hand. Make him pay to hit his gin hand instead of making it so marginal. It's really all about that Small Blind being in there. I can see how the Button is in the hand... The Small Blind should not be able to call inbetween, I don't think. Given his position for the rest of the hand.

Especially with a hand as weak as K 10

[Kimo White Devil]

*grunch*

youll be OOP postflop. You have to raise more preflop to make this eaiser for you and harder for the others. Raise to 4BB + 1/limper + 1 for being OOP = 3.5$

As played, your bet/raise on the flop is not big enough to accomplish anything. Pump those 2 up so the decision still stays on the opponent side.

And finally you got odds to call the last bet by being ahead or having your 30% of boating by the river.

I find myself in those situations where i hit sets with board drawy and I make the mistake of fearing the draws and/or made hands way to much, but I put my money in anyways and at the wrong spot (turn or river), way better to put it in on the flop with your hand.

[Sweir]

Beware of what Trae3ab says everyone.

As for the hand, bet more on the flop and insta-call the AI.

lol at the results....

[gopnik]

easiest call ever?

[Big Poppa Smurf]

YOU PLAY MICROSTAKES, YOU HAVE TOP SET, YOU GET ALL IN

[HBomb]

I'd be all in here regardless of their holdings, granted I generally would make it at least $3 preflop with just a big pair, especially with QQ, given that there is more in the pot because of the 2nd guy in the hand, it would only entice me more to make the crying call to drawing to the nuts (any QJ9) or river 2, are are gauranteed to win unless they are holding JJ 99 or 22 and river their quads lol

[RAHZero]

PF: RAISE MORE! I go 4xBB + 1 per limper, and an extra 1 BB or so when OOP. Make this $3 to go PF.

Flop: What are you doing??? Not to be an ass, but seriously, $2 into a $6 multi-way pot with top set and plenty of straight draws out there? Bet the full pot here, or at least close to it. Anything less than $5 doesn't cut it. Your reraise is small too, after he shows that much strength, I probably just shove the flop. Easy, easy, easy call of the push, there are two hands that beat you here, you have plenty of outs against them, and you are crushing his range.

[losingdonkey]

Ugh, didnt see results, yeah, think this is a fold.

[Djeorge]

[ QUOTE ]
Ugh, didnt see results, yeah, think this is a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

[Sweir]

[ QUOTE ]
Ugh, didnt see results, yeah, think this is a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why people don't include results in the OP.

[Xanthro]

You're right, there's nothing to discuss. Even if they turned their cards face up post flop, you'd still have to call. The call is EV+ and it's a cash game, so you call.

[Leviathan101]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ugh, didnt see results, yeah, think this is a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

[/ QUOTE ]

lol.

I /images/graemlins/heart.gif poker.

AI all the time.

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ugh, didnt see results, yeah, think this is a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

[/ QUOTE ]

STOP THE R.O.T.

(Results Oriented Thinking)

after you raise it to $22 even if both villains turn thier hands over and show you they both have made straights it's still +EV to call.

It is +EV to get all-in on ANY flop where you flop top set. In fact when you flop top set you should stop thinking about ranges and am I ahead am I behind and just work out how to get all the chips in the middle right away if you can.

after you raise to $22 once the action gets back to you you are getting &gt;4:1 pot odds.

You make a boat and beat both of them 1 time in 3 (2:1 against)

you should fold top set approximately never on the flop.

Instead of raising it to $22 - pot the flop 1st time around then just push it all-in when you get raised.

[ABCofPKR]

push... if he floped a str8 U still cold beat him making a full house... there is dead money in the pot and lot of times they make set or 2 pair in this flop; push!

[Djeorge]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ugh, didnt see results, yeah, think this is a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

[/ QUOTE ]

STOP THE R.O.T.

(Results Oriented Thinking)

after you raise it to $22 even if both villains turn thier hands over and show you they both have made straights it's still +EV to call.

It is +EV to get all-in on ANY flop where you flop top set. In fact when you flop top set you should stop thinking about ranges and am I ahead am I behind and just work out how to get all the chips in the middle right away if you can.

after you raise to $22 once the action gets back to you you are getting &gt;4:1 pot odds.

You make a boat and beat both of them 1 time in 3 (2:1 against)

you should fold top set approximately never on the flop.

Instead of raising it to $22 - pot the flop 1st time around then just push it all-in when you get raised.

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't mean to level you, maybe I should've added something in white after the QFT, or just a

QFT







lol

[Mrage]

Lol @ the levelling

Raise more PF ($3 is goot)

I'm getting this all-in every day and twice on Sunday.

[Zagga]

[ QUOTE ]
[
after you raise it to $22 even if both villains turn thier hands over and show you they both have made straights it's still +EV to call.


[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

it is like what? 5-1 to call? valuetown all over.