KT on the button - flop two pair

[losingdonkey]

no stats, villain had been limping a lot. Is it standard to stack off here?

Full Tilt Poker
$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
5 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
Hero (BTN): $11.50
SB: $14.3
BB: $17.2
UTG: $11.10
CO: $10

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($0.15, 5 players)
UTG folds, CO folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $0.40</font>, SB calls $0.35, BB calls $0.30

<font color="black">Flop:</font> T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif ($1.2, 3 players)
<font color="red">SB bets $0.10</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $0.20</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.50</font>, SB folds, <font color="red">BB raises all in to $16.90</font>, Hero calls all in for $8.60
Uncalled bet of $5.80 returned to BB

<font color="black">Turn:</font> T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif [4/images/graemlins/heart.gif] ($23.5, 2 players)
No action

<font color="black">River:</font> T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif [A/images/graemlins/heart.gif] ($23.5, 2 players)
No action

[Angrymoog]

It would be interesting to see stove results for this hand giving opponent a reasonable range.

I imagine you might be 50/50 most of the time, but its tough to know what villain's huge reraise narrows his hand down to. I would fold this and wait for something better.

[matrix]

marginal.

you beat AK AQ QT AA JJ you lose to J9 AJ KQ KK QQ TT

AQ isn't all that likely overall you're about a 60/40 (1.5:1) dog vs his likely range and after he pushes you're getting 1.45:1.

very close.

If he's *ever* bluffing here it's +EV but only *just*

at the table I probably call - but looking at it here it's a fold.

[cubase]

I'm probably folding here without a strong player read.

1) I need to know what his pre-flop calling range is. If he will call with pretty much anything he limps, I'm probably well beaten here.

2) I need to know what he shoves with. Does he shove with monsters? Does he shove with top pair? Does he shove with air? Does he shove with draws?

3) He has accumulated some chips. Maybe he was lucky. Maybe he plays his style well. Either way, without seeing some massive mistake on his part when he shoves, I don't like calling here.

4) After playing with pokerstove (see below) I gave him a reasonable range I think (if someone wants to dig further and widen the range, please do) and we just aren't in a good spot here. We really need to narrow his range a LOT and know his proclivities with a massive stack push in order to make a good decision here.

Fold and wait for a better spot.

Here is one pokerstove run... I don't know if he will smooth call pre-flop with AA-JJ, but I included it in his range.

Board: Tc Kd Qc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 60.871% 57.52% 03.35% 45559 2651.00 { 99+, AcKc, AJs, Ac9c, Ac8c, Ac7c, Ac6c, Ac5c, Ac4c, Ac3c, Ac2c, KQs, KTs, QTs, J9s, AJo, KQo, KTo, QTo, J9o }
Hand 1: 39.129% 35.78% 03.35% 28339 2651.00 { KsTd }

[Zagga]

[ QUOTE ]
you beat AK AQ QT AA JJ you lose to J9 AJ KQ KK QQ TT


[/ QUOTE ]

I think he could do it with a lot more hands. like TJ, KJ, QJ, and I even see idiots do this with a random King with no kicker or worse.

[crushednuts]

I think you are beat here most of the time. it would be doubtful he would limp with most of the hands that you beat, like AK, AQ, AA etc. and it is very likely that he would limp w/ J9, KQ, AJ etc. All of which you need to really suck out on. With no reads and figuring in the min-raise, i would toss it figuring he flopped Broadway w/ AJ. I think you are drawing extremely thin here most of the time. Occasionally you will see a flush draw, which still has numerous outs

[cubase]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are beat here most of the time. it would be doubtful he would limp with most of the hands that you beat, like AK, AQ, AA etc. and it is very likely that he would limp w/ J9, KQ, AJ etc. All of which you need to really suck out on. With no reads and figuring in the min-raise, i would toss it figuring he flopped Broadway w/ AJ. I think you are drawing extremely thin here most of the time. Occasionally you will see a flush draw, which still has numerous outs

[/ QUOTE ]

The villian didn't limp. The villian was in the BB. The potential for a smooth call with AQ, AK, AA-JJ, are all possible (likelihood of course is player dependent).

He just noted that the villian limped a lot. That in and of itself doesn't indicate anything other than the villian likes to play some hands. As Pokey pointed out in one of his great posts, someone who is LP pre-flop can instantly become TA postflop.

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you beat AK AQ QT AA JJ you lose to J9 AJ KQ KK QQ TT


[/ QUOTE ]

I think he could do it with a lot more hands. like TJ, KJ, QJ, and I even see idiots do this with a random King with no kicker or worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt he'll push the flop with JT here (even JTcc) TPNK is possible - if you can add in even one or 2 more hands like TPNK then it's +EV to call - but it's very very close even if you do.

Our only read is he's been limping a lot. Generally speaking this means he's very likely a Loose Passive. and LAP's don't push the flop very often without a good hand.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

I mean you are probably beat but I wouldn't fold here either some players are like "KJ the nutzzzz zzomg get arrr in"

[orange]

after you 3-bet the flop, i would not fold.